Again with the focusing

Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
7,818
Location
Gilroy, California
Right now, Nikon is definitely letting some of us down.

But I would think they do care. For products such as the D2X, happy customers are what sell the camera to other photographers.

Many people use the products (software) that I help engineer. Millions, actually. And I follow our support boards as I can. And watch for problems I can help solve. I will even go so far as to ask customer support to ask the customer for the data so I can ensure their problem is resolved.

And it is hard. It is depressing to pour thousands of hours into creating something, then watching someone have a difficult time using it. But that is my responsibility, and I never let go of an issue until I have done whatever I can to fix it.

There has to be people like me at Nikon, or they couldn't produce these products in the first place.

We just need to stay on them, and our problems will be solved too.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
96
Location
Norwalk, CA
Beezle,

I believe Nikon cares and eventually will resolve the problems, whether they are localized to individual units, or a model wide problem. They can't afford to not do so. I have been a Nikon customer for 27 years and I am still not ready to give up on them, although with the D2H we took a beating, we purchased it and soon the price dropped almost $1k. When they came out with the D2Hs the rumor was that they would offer some rebate to upgrade the camera to D2H owners, but did not. That one left me feeling a little bit sour, not that I expect Nikon to stop developing new cameras, but the D2Hs feels too much like a bug fix for the D2H. That's just the feeling I got when I saw $1k flying out of my wallet!!

I agree and know there are people at Nikon that care a lot, I dealt with a level 3 technician named Frank though e-mails and he is very caring and tried hard until we both figured out that it would be best to let Nikon deal with it.

What came out of my correspondence with him is that the D2X is not the monster some people try to make it sound like. He feels if you are successfully using the D2H, there should not be much of a problem using the D2X. In other forums you get slammed on the head over and over with "it is your lack of skills", I often wonder if these people work for Nikon or just have a mental deficiency.

I'll let you know how I make out with mine.
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
Well, I got it back. Nikon cleaned the mirror box and in a hand written note on the bottom said that

"AF Bracket areas are performing within standards. It is not recommended to use that paper chart as a method of checking performance."

My quick tests at the office indicate that focus is better but can still be off. I've noticed that most errors occur when the focus target is smaller than the brackets and not parallel to the camera. Again, this was only handheld in my dimmly lit office so the jury is still out but it does seem better.

I'll probably still call and ask to speak to "Hedy" to get some details about how Nikon tests the focus and why the chart isn't recommended.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
96
Location
Norwalk, CA
Ruffles,

Please let us know what you find when you do more testing.

>> AF Bracket areas are performing within standards <<

I hope their standards are not too loose.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
I just got mine back from Melville 2ND trip. The first thing I noticed when removing it from the shipping box the battery fell out of the camera. I had sent it in to be checked with the camera. I also noticed the view finder had more dust specks in it and the LCD cover had some stained spots on it. I tried my 80-400MM first and......now it has no focus. AF would cycle the lens once no lock on. I tried to focus using manual mode but no green light.

I called service and after about half hour switching menu,modes.resets and lens it kicked in and started to work. He told me if it does it again, sent it back in to service. I'll have to check out the focusing later and see if there is any difference they did adjust the auto focus again.


Butch
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
I played around with it last night and the focus is pretty good. It's razor sharp with my 105 and 50 at every focus point. The 24-120 is good with just 1 or 2 points focusing just a tad behind the others. The 12-24 can still be fooled in to back focusing but it seems to be related to the size of the object I'm focusing on. If I focus on something about twice the size of the rectical, it does fine. If it's the same size or smaller, it's hit or miss with the back focus.

Following Nikon's recommendation, I didn't use the test chart. I tested focus by shooting a large stuffed animal. My results where good. The only one I sort of question is the 12-24 and then I have to acknowledge that zooming to 24mm and focusing on something 12 inches away with the far left or right sensor and then blowing it up to 200% isn't really the way I use that lens. I think for landscapes or group shots it will be fine.

I called Nikon yesterday to talk to Hedy but because the Torrance location is moving to a new building, things are hectic and he wasn't available. The rep I spoke to was very nice and took my contact info and said they would begin to research my case and Hedy would get back to me. At this point, I'm happy with the camera and don't plan to send it back. I just want to talk to them about how they test focus, limitations of the sensors and recommendations for best focus, and why the "test chart" shows such poor performance. I'll defiantly let you all know what they say.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
96
Location
Norwalk, CA
Thanks Ruffles,

At any point in time did you get poor results with color rendition? Mine seemed fine in that department, but when I got it back after Torrance adjusted the autofocus the images are prominently soft and lifeless when it comes to color. I have spent hours messing with WB, color space, etc. etc and nothing seems to help, there is so much I can get out in post processing before image degradation starts to happen. Right now I am waiting for an answer from my dealer to see if Nikon agrees to have the camera replaced.

After they adjusted the autofocus function the improvement was huge, except that once in a while some of the sensors seem to get fooled and the camera focuses on a different plane, mostly front of where Capture tells me it locked on.

I will greatly appreciate it if you let us know what Nikon says about testing for autofocus accuracy, there are so many tests being recommended out there that I think it just adds to the confusion and leads some people to think their cameras have a problem when it does not.
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
Mike,

I haven't had any problem with color rendition. Sorry to hear you sent your camera in for one problem and got a new one in return. I agree that there is a lot of confusion around testing focus. I have a hard time believeing that not one Nikon employee has visited any forum and provided a little input on how to correctly perform a test. I think a little information here could go a long way. I'll let you know what they say.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
Got mine back from Melville today second trip,all focus area's are dead on. I threw everything at it today and every lens I have, it passed with flying colors.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
Ruffles

Yes,I have the 12-24mm. I tried it both ends and everywhere in between,dead on. I took a couple of shots of my brothers orange vette yesterday evening and it was very Sharp right out of the camera. I haven't figured out how to post an image yet or I would put it up.




Butch
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
Woody

It took about a week to get checked in, all together about two weeks. I was very surprised it came back this good. :lol:

Butch
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
While I'm pretty happy with the way my D2x is focusing, I thought I'd take it to the camera store and see if I could compare it with a D2hs or another D2x (again). They didn't have any bodies but they did have the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 XR Di LD. I'd always heard that the 24-120 VR was considered soft and people are saying great things about the Tamron so I gave it a try. The result in the store was perfect focus on every sensor. After seeing that, I asked if they had the Tokina 12-24 since I've heard good things about it as well. They did and I gave it a try. The result was once again, perfect focus on every sensor.

While I feel a little dirty giving up on Nikkor glass, I bought both of them knowing that after selling my lens on eBay, I'll come out several hundred dollars ahead. I've got a week to return them so I'll do lots of testing before I make up my mind but right now, I'm really leaning towards keeping them.

I used both lens with my S2 and had great results so I don't think they're defective (and Nikon has checked them twice now). It's just interesting to me that they don't seem to work well on my D2x. In the case of the 12-24, this is my second sample as I exchanged my original thinking that might fix my focus problems. Go figure...

So what do you think? Am I insane to give up Nikkor glass for 3rd party stuff or is the final image all that matters and if 3rd party lens give me better focus, so be it?
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
Ruffles

Have you checked to see if your center sensor is off center,right or left?.

Keep the Nikor.


Butch
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
My center sensor has always been perfect on every lens. The problem ones seem to be the corners...lower left and right being the worst. Evidently, Thom Hoggan said somewhere that AF-S lens seem to have more focus problems than screw drive lens. That seems to be the case for me. The lens in my collection are:

Nikkor 50mm 1.4
Sigma 105 2.8
Sigma 70-200
Nikkor 12-24
Nikkor 24-120

Of those, the only ones giving my problems are the Nikkors with Nikons Silent Wave motors. I don't know what Sigma uses in the 70-200. It's silent but maybe the electronics are different.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
94
Ruffles
Quote:

"The 12-24 can still be fooled in to back focusing but it seems to be related to the size of the object I'm focusing on. If I focus on something about twice the size of the rectical, it does fine. If it's the same size or smaller, it's hit or miss with the back focus".


What I meant to say was, do you know where your auto focus sensors are in relation to the center focus bracket. I think the D2x sensor is a little larger then the center bracket, some are off center,right or left.

Butch
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
482
Location
Rexburg, ID
I think they line up pretty good. The testing I did today was of a truck license plate that was much bigger than the bracket so I think I completely covered the sensor.
 

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