Alienbees, Whitelightning, cybersyncs, stands...lots of questions

[davidC]

Ok so I am looking to purchase some studio lights and I've got some questions.

My current off camera flash set up is
1 sb600
1 vivitar 285hv
ebay triggers
2 impact light stands
umbrellas, softbox


I plan on shooting indoors and outdoors. Whether I'm competing with the sun I guess really depends. I don't necessarily go out and shoot against the on purpose. There are times that I will shoot outdoors and need fill flash.

I probably want at least 2 lights. I am also very interested in the AB ringflash.

Now onto some questions.

I've been doing some reading on here and it appears AB400 are all I would ever need shooting in a "studio" setup. Is this true? I read a post saying ISO200 f/8 with a softbox 30" away and AB400 on a setting of 1/8?

Is the AB400 adequate for full length body shots? What type of distance will the AB400 get me.

I was initially thinking about getting 1 ab400 and 1 ab800. or 2 of one.

I also read that the White Lightning 1600 allows me to turn it down to 1/4 power and fire off quickly and reliably. It comes at a higher price but also gives me the option of competing with the sun. Now would it be wise to purchase this and use it at 1/4 power all the time indoors and then only have it when I need it to shoot outdoors? Or is that a total waste?

And realistically I only need one CST and CSRB right? Since the AB all have built in slaves. I guess I would need some CSRB if I wanted to use my speedlights are hair or background lights.

Are the light modifiers interchangeable between WL and AB? I ask because I would like a beauty dish, grids, and soft/octabox.

The alienbee light stands seem over priced. Any recommendations on lightstands? I'm considering a boom as well.


thanks for any help and insight!:smile:

 

[Timdoggydizzle05]

If you are competeing with the sun deffinently go with AB800 atleast if you can afford AB1600 thats the way to go.

 

[jfrancis]

I know that some have advocated only using the AB400 in an indoor setting, but I find that the AB800's work perfectly well. Having that additional power will definitely help you outside though. I keep one AB1600 mainly for outdoor use when I have to compete with the Florida sun.

I believe the modifiers are interchangeable. All the lights have optical slaves so you only really need one radio receiver.

The AB heavy duty stands are actually pretty good - I don't find they are overpriced. I have the AB boom but more often use an Avenger C-stand for anything requiring a boom-mounted light as it is much more stable.

 

[WayneF]

I've been doing some reading on here and it appears AB400 are all I would ever need shooting in a "studio" setup. Is this true? I read a post saying ISO200 f/8 with a softbox 30" away and AB400 on a setting of 1/8?

Is the AB400 adequate for full length body shots? What type of distance will the AB400 get me.

That was probably me. I also said "at f/10" in that B400 ISO 200 case. My claim is that at ISO 200, the B400 is plenty of power for anything you are likely to do indoors, and farther, that the B800 is a bit much indoors, and has to be turned way down into the area that instability might become a small issue.

The B400 at ISO 200 with subject measured to be ten feet from the fabric of a white umbrella will meter f/8 at full power. This is for groups of course, any individual portrait will be much closer. How much more power do you need indoors?

You have to go to 20 feet to get it down to f/4 (still full power). But the light is soft when it is very close, at a distance comparable to the modifier size.. At 30 inches in a Large softbox, you cannot turn the B400 down enough to get to f/4.

Outdoors, you do need more. You may have to match the sun at f/16 for example, which if at the same ten feet, this is two more stops. The B1600 is two stops more powerful than the B400. But you do not likely shoot at f/16 indoors.

I was initially thinking about getting 1 ab400 and 1 ab800. or 2 of one.

I have two of each. I bought B800s first, and discovered that I much preferred the more useful lower power level of the B400 (indoors). Now I relegate the B800s to be background and hairlight, as I can put grids on them to knock them down, and consistency is less important in those uses.

I also read that the White Lightning 1600 allows me to turn it down to 1/4 power and fire off quickly and reliably. It comes at a higher price but also gives me the option of competing with the sun. Now would it be wise to purchase this and use it at 1/4 power all the time indoors and then only have it when I need it to shoot outdoors? Or is that a total waste?

Cases like this may need two flashes for the two situations, lower power indoors and higher power outdoors, in the sun, or at greater distances...

The X1600 is both, at a lower price than buying both. The X1600 is both a B400 and a B1600, built into one case, and is switch selectable with this 1/4 power switch. Yes, this is a big deal.

The B1600 at ISO 200 at 30 inches would be at minimum 1/32 power level in same situation (f/10). You dont want to plan to operate all the time at minimum power. Color shift and stability is less good at minimum power. The high power light is much slower sluggish light than the lesser fast light, and it is even twice as slow at lowest power. Some lights will not even allow 1/32 power, but these do.

The 1/4 power switch simply switches to the B400 which you actually need in that case... no performance hit, actually a performance increase. An actual small fast flash operating more mid power range, and it doesn't get better than that. :smile: It is truly the two flashes in one, but you can only use them one at at time of course (is not two physically separate lights).

Are the light modifiers interchangeable between WL and AB? I ask because I would like a beauty dish, grids, and soft/octabox.

Yes.

Here is a good post about the differences in White Lightning and Alienbees (8th post down, by RDKirk)

http://www.paulcbuff.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9534&p=98928

 

[davidC]

thanks for the information.

so would you recommend the WL 1600?
maybe 1 WL1600 and 1 ab400? or 1 WL1600 and 1 AB800?

i was shooting outdoors this past weekend and got very fed up with my flashes.


What is a good boom arm/stand setup?

 

[khollister]

Given the modern DSLR environment of ISO 200 as the base, and apertures of f4-f16 as the normal working apertures for most subjects, I find the need for the big strobes questionable. Back when we were shooting ISO 25 & 50 film stocks, and using MF or LF with the small apertures that went with them for reasonable DOF, power was king.

While a WL1600 can overpower the sun, the only way you are going to make a flash exposure (assuming you have a mechanical shutter limited to 1/250 synx speed) is to use a lot of ND on the camera lens and/or very small apertures that will likely get you into diffraction territory on most DSLR lenses and sensors.

There are times I really wish for either a base ISO of 25 and/or an electronic or leaf shutter that can sync at 1/4000 and up. A D40/D70 can come in really handy for this.

I am thinking about getting a couple AB400's for indoor use for this reason. I have an older WL800 and WL1600. THis weekend I was trying to shoot something with the WL800 and a shoot through umbrella - even with the light 10+' away (which wasn't what I wanted), I was at F13 or so at ISO 200 (I wanted F5.6 or so) with the WL turned all the way down. I need to either ND gel the lights (by several stops) or get smaller lights. With low ambient light indoors, ND on the camera is not great for focusing.

 

[kenyee]

Main negative w/ the WL1600 vs. the AB1600 is weight.
The AB is almost an ideal location light...small, lightweight, plastic and can take a fall, easy to fix when it does fall, inexpensive enough to have backups.
That said, if you're doing mostly indoors and only do outdoors occasionally, a WL1600 should be fine...the sandbags will kill you anyways ;-)