an early note on "underexposure"

Discussion in 'Nikon DX DSLR' started by Iliah, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    Peter and I found it particularly difficult to recover highlights with D2x. In our experience this is different from all previous Nikon dSLRs, except for original D1. But noise in midtones and shadows with D2x is pretty low - up to 560 ISO. So, for now it looks like I will be exposing for highlights where I want to keep details.

    To me underexposure is when details are lost in shadows; and overexposure is when they are lost in highlights. Other things are to be solved via tonal curves (including in-camera curves). Dark pictures are not necessary underexposed - just midtones boosting curve is needed.
     
  2. Iliah -

    I'm assuming for now (dangerous I know) that you're talking about recovery of highlights from NEF files. Is this correct? Also, I'm particularly interested in whether you've noticed any highlight recovery differences between compressed and non-compressed NEFs, as I've read speculation in the past that compressed NEFs may tend to sacrifice some of the bit depth that could be useful for that.

    So do you have any suspicions on what the cause for the highlight issue is, ie. Sensor differences, in-camera processing, differences in WB processing, etc.?

    Thanks for keeping us "in the loop"...
     
  3. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    Dear David,

    Yes, I mean NEFs. Uncompressed NEFs.

    Tonight I will try to figure out the reason for different highlight "behavior".

    Compression can add to highlight posterization, but IMHO the issue is a little bit exaggerated.
     
  4. My initial take on it is tha same as yours. Can this be helped up by a customs tone curve?

    andreas


     
  5. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
  6. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    After some experimenting it looks like -0.5eV is needed to protect highlights in high dynamic range scene.
     
  7. jfenton

    jfenton

    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Iliah...

    This only works however if you don't have dark shadow areas where you might induce noise?

    Also...if you have bright highlights somewhere other than as part of your subject and the subject needs positive EV to light it up (in the case of being backlit) I would think that the highlights are simply going to have to blow.
     
  8. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    I do not see much noise up to ISO 560 in shadows; at least with our programme. See the image in the previous post - the original scene had really huge dynamic range. And the image was sharpened 300/1/5 in Photoshop to see noise better, plus it is JPEG.

    I agree with your comment about darker subjects - but I would look for another lighting to bring the scene into the camera's dynamic range.

    Here is a comment from another person: "I would like to share with you guys one thing that I noticed after limited testing with my D2X, that is its behavior in Matrix II mode. I noticed that the meter is spot on under controlled light circumstances or low contrast scenes while it tends to overexpose (generally by 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop) in more contrasty scenes."
     
  9. jfenton

    jfenton

    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Iliah...

    While I have your attention....

    When I open up D2X files in my newly downloaded RM, they open up with this god awful greenish brassy color. Any clue as to why?

    Jim Fenton
     
  10. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    Yes, I do know :). Because we do not want to apply D2x white balance - please use "Auto" and correct from that.
     
  11. jfenton

    jfenton

    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Thanks Kindly :)

    By the way....if a person wanted to submit a file to you and then litterally PAY for a tutorial fron you on the full workup of that file...is this a possibility???

    I need to be able to more fully use the program and I think that a step by step workflow on one of my own images would teach me lots in a short amount of time?
     
  12. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    :) but of course we will do that for free :)
     
  13. MontyDog

    MontyDog

    Jan 30, 2005
    #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax;
     
  14. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    Encrypted? Are you reading Mr. Knoll's e-mails? :)

    From some point of view one may say that the whole NEF format is encrypted, as there is no publicly available documentation on it.

    Nikon went to more complicated white balance management scheme, and that's all. I also think they will polish it in some near future, through firmware upgrade.
     
  15. MontyDog

    MontyDog

    Jan 30, 2005
    #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax;
     
  16. Larry Gleason

    Larry Gleason

    373
    Jan 26, 2005
    Well, you folks keep working these technical details out while I check B&H 50 times a day for when I can order my D2X. I've waited since it was first announced so I don't mind the waiting. However, wahhhhhhhh!
     
  17. Iliah

    Iliah

    Jan 29, 2005
    nowhere
    Good luck Larry! I heard that by the end of this month the cameras will be in stock everywhere.
     
  18. Larry Gleason

    Larry Gleason

    373
    Jan 26, 2005
    Thanks! That is good news that I had not heard. I'm glad but still a bit surprised that there has been such a run on the D2X. What needs to be done here at some point is for everyone to merge data on what the "best of class" settings are for the D2X as was done for the other models. What I would call baseline settings. Otherwise and probably still, I'll be shooting it next to my D1X until the (whatever to be) settings on the D2X match the D1X results. That will suit my purposes quite well since I'm (and the galley and magazine) pleased with the out of camera results with my D1X.
     
  19. MontyDog

    MontyDog

    Jan 30, 2005
    #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax;
     
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