Announcement for Nikon Cafe

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Having used the Internet since 1980: it never stops amazing me that there are so many people that just cannot move on without saying something mean.

Very true. I'm amazed at how nasty folks can get hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. However, that has not typically been the case here. This has historically been a site with very civil discourse. When folks have strayed, they were reminded by the moderating team.
My persistence on this issue stems from my desire to make this site more active. This place used to be much more active than it is now. I've been a member here for almost 12 years, so I have a bit of perspective. I don't think we can attract and keep photographers here if everyone just says "nice pic" as a response to new photos posted. What keeps people coming back is intelligent dialogue about our common interest: photography.
 
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Agreed- and to add, Amin has introduced additional features to enable members to ask for critiques. These additions maintain an "Opt-In" approach, which is the preference of many members.
 
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This unsolicited "critique" discussion made me think of this commercial :D...

Priceless, indeed...!
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Very true. I'm amazed at how nasty folks can get hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. However, that has not typically been the case here. This has historically been a site with very civil discourse. When folks have strayed, they were reminded by the moderating team.
My persistence on this issue stems from my desire to make this site more active. This place used to be much more active than it is now. I've been a member here for almost 12 years, so I have a bit of perspective. I don't think we can attract and keep photographers here if everyone just says "nice pic" as a response to new photos posted. What keeps people coming back is intelligent dialogue about our common interest: photography.
I couldn't agree more...I did give you an "Agree" but didn't see any buttons for anything stronger than that!

In all seriousness, I see no problem with someone asking questions about a photograph. The questions might be asked to gain a better understanding of the intentions of the photographer. Or, the questions might get the photographer thinking as well.

Asking a question about why a photographer chose a shutter speed of 1/8000th of a second for a stationary subject, or why one would choose ISO 1600 in bright daylight or why choose an aperture of f/22 while hoping to isolate the subject all seem to be fair game to me. It gets the photographer thinking (or responding)...so long as this exchange is done in a positive and respectful manner.

If I were to post a photograph...and didn't want any feedback at all other than "nice pic"...then what's the value of the comments that one receives? It reminds me of how the eBay seller feedback ratings became meaningless when eBay stopped allowing buyers to leave negative feedback after a less than satisfactory transaction. One can elect to leave positive feedback or nothing at all. Once that change was made, feedback became meaningless.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I very much appreciate anyone who takes their valuable time to provide me with their thoughts about the photos that I post--whether I initially agree with the input or not.

Glenn
 

Amin Sabet

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Some are saying that there should never be a suggestion or dialogue about doing something differently about an image unless such feedback is requested.

Other are saying that people posting an image here should always be receptive to such suggestions.

Those in the "never" camp might consider that some people are open to and appreciative of suggestions which were not solicited.

Those in the "always" camp might consider that some people have a legitimate reason for sharing photos other than to learn how to improve.

Just saying, there is a reason we don't have a rule about this.
 
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I noticed yesterday that someone had "Critique Welcomed" in their signature. I suggest to just put "Critiques-Yes" or "Critiques-No" in our signatures (or nothing of course if this is a non-issue to you).
At least it gives us a chance to express our preference. (I just did.)
 

Amin Sabet

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I suggest to just put "Critiques-Yes" or "Critiques-No" in our signatures

Anyone can put anything like that in their sig if they want to do so, and I'm sure nearly all members will respect those preferences if they notice them in the sig. Fwiw, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice yours if you didn't point it out.

Ultimately, most people are not going to indicate it in their sig. I think common sense and common courtesy will take care of the rest of the situations.
 
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photogramps

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Surely there are enough options to show that critique is welcome ... Critique Welcome Symbol, a dedicated Critique Corner Forum and the Signature option. Personally I will assume that anyone not using either of these features will not be wanting to receive critique and hopefully that will avoid any issues.
I see no reason to assume that just because someone posts an image that he/she is looking for critique.
 
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I noticed yesterday that someone had "Critique Welcomed" in their signature. I suggest to just put "Critiques-Yes" or "Critiques-No" in our signatures (or nothing of course if this is a non-issue to you).
At least it gives us a chance to express our preference. (I just did.)
Just an honest question...

Yesterday, I read a post in which a photographer posted a photo that I like very much--but the photograph had some chromatic aberration issues. The photographer did not ask for critique. I pointed out why I like the photograph, but wasn't sure if he noticed that it had these bright cyan and magenta lines outlining the trees. He replied that he hadn't noticed that and that he appreciated that I provided him with that feedback. He corrected the aberration and posted the improved image. He was appreciative that I took the time to help him improve that photograph.

The day before, someone posted a picture that included a brick wall. The picture was well composed and very colorful. One forum member pointed out that the horizontal lines weren't straight. The person who posted the picture mentioned that when he corrected the lines at the top of the building--then the bottom ones weren't straight. He pointed out that he wasn't aware of a way to get both horizontal lines straight--and all the while was having trouble keeping the verticals vertical! I introduced him to the Perspective Crop tool in Photoshop--which makes it possible to fix all the lines at once in a very short time. He appreciated the help. I wouldn't have known how to fix such issues if another kind forum member hadn't "critiqued" one of my photos many years ago. Ever since, my architectural photography has been improved as a result of that thoughtful gesture.

My question is...if someone doesn't specifically ask for critique, or if they "Critiques No"--does that mean that I shouldn't leave feedback such as this? Why wouldn't a photographer want to be introduced to what might possibly be a new tool to address an issue within a photo? And, if someone says that they don't want any "critique" at all, does that mean they don't want positive feedback either--after all, critiques go both ways. When I provide critique, most of it is pointing out what works for me in that image. So, I suspect that some people might want to put "Positive Critique Only" in their signature.

When I read "Critiques No", what it means to me is "Comments No". And that's fine. Critique takes up valuable time...and it's easier for a forum member to just view a photo and move on. Or, it's faster to just click one of the buttons.

Glenn
 
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I think common sense and common courtesy will take care of the rest of the situations.
I agree with this. It seems like much of the purpose of having a forum is for people to have good discussions about photography. If those discussions are civil and respectful, there shouldn't be too many issues. If someone is acting out of line, I'm sure that there are tools to address the actions in those rare situations.

Glenn
 
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Just an honest question...

Yesterday, I read a post in which a photographer posted a photo that I like very much--but the photograph had some chromatic aberration issues. The photographer did not ask for critique. I pointed out why I like the photograph, but wasn't sure if he noticed that it had these bright cyan and magenta lines outlining the trees. He replied that he hadn't noticed that and that he appreciated that I provided him with that feedback. He corrected the aberration and posted the improved image. He was appreciative that I took the time to help him improve that photograph.

The day before, someone posted a picture that included a brick wall. The picture was well composed and very colorful. One forum member pointed out that the horizontal lines weren't straight. The person who posted the picture mentioned that when he corrected the lines at the top of the building--then the bottom ones weren't straight. He pointed out that he wasn't aware of a way to get both horizontal lines straight--and all the while was having trouble keeping the verticals vertical! I introduced him to the Perspective Crop tool in Photoshop--which makes it possible to fix all the lines at once in a very short time. He appreciated the help. I wouldn't have known how to fix such issues if another kind forum member hadn't "critiqued" one of my photos many years ago. Ever since, my architectural photography has been improved as a result of that thoughtful gesture.

My question is...if someone doesn't specifically ask for critique, or if they "Critiques No"--does that mean that I shouldn't leave feedback such as this? Why wouldn't a photographer want to be introduced to what might possibly be a new tool to address an issue within a photo? And, if someone says that they don't want any "critique" at all, does that mean they don't want positive feedback either--after all, critiques go both ways. When I provide critique, most of it is pointing out what works for me in that image. So, I suspect that some people might want to put "Positive Critique Only" in their signature.

When I read "Critiques No", what it means to me is "Comments No". And that's fine. Critique takes up valuable time...and it's easier for a forum member to just view a photo and move on. Or, it's faster to just click one of the buttons.

Glenn

Glenn, you're starting to sound like me! While I don't want to offend, I cannot understand why anyone here would not welcome a civil discussion about any photographs posted. You've provided valuable insight on just the two photographs you mentioned from yesterday. Both photographers took your comments in the spirit they were intended. We all learned something in the process and nobody was offended. This should be the expected norm for any photograph posted here. If you don't want people to discuss/critique your photos, perhaps folks should just post on a site like Flickr or Imgur and turn off the comments.

I'm going to continue to politely ask people about their photos. I just hope I don't get banned for trying to have a reasonable conversation.
 
P

photogramps

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Some people just don't want critique, even if that critique might be helpful.
If we can't accept that where the invitation to critique is not present we should not offer critique then why not a 'Photos for pleasure' section where no critique is offered?
People who really don't want critique could post their images there.
However, my choice would be critique where it is asked for or acceptance of critique is implied by some 'symbol', otherwise just don't ... I see no reason why you have to want to give it.
 
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Some people just don't want critique, even if that critique might be helpful.
If we can't accept that where the invitation to critique is not present we should not offer critique then why not a 'Photos for pleasure' section where no critique is offered?
People who really don't want critique could post their images there.
However, my choice would be critique where it is asked for or acceptance of critique is implied by some 'symbol', otherwise just don't ... I see no reason why you have to want to give it.
If someone doesn't want a critique...and indicates that in their post or their signature, I respect that wish and would never comment on the photo. After all, that just saves me time and effort. But, I don't think that should be a default position. I could be wrong, but I would guess that the majority of people posting images would like some sort of feedback--even if it's just positive.

Perhaps a "Photos for Pleasure" section makes sense...a place to post photos for simply viewing with no place for discussion or commentary at all. I'm not sure a "forum" is the best place to share pictures for that purpose, but the forums are used by a lot more people than just me!

Glenn
 
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Some people just don't want critique, even if that critique might be helpful.
If we can't accept that where the invitation to critique is not present we should not offer critique then why not a 'Photos for pleasure' section where no critique is offered?
People who really don't want critique could post their images there.
However, my choice would be critique where it is asked for or acceptance of critique is implied by some 'symbol', otherwise just don't ... I see no reason why you have to want to give it.

I thought about that yesterday. I think the default for any photography forum should be discussion about any photo posted. For people who want no comments, a single section of "photos for pleasure" would be a great idea. The only response allowed in the section to any posted photo would be "Nice Pic". Any other comments could be disallowed or automatically deleted.
 
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photogramps

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For people who want no comments, a single section of "photos for pleasure" would be a great idea. The only response allowed in the section to any posted photo would be "Nice Pic". Any other comments could be disallowed or automatically deleted.
Yeah, I'm not sure I would be that narrow, there are lots of possible comments without having to impose our own opinions on improving it. :)
 
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