Bear kill danger and an idiot.

Discussion in 'Other Animals' started by alaskahutch, May 26, 2007.

  1. alaskahutch

    alaskahutch

    Jun 22, 2006
    Soldotna
    A grizzly killed a calf moose 1/2 mile from our house an hour ago. My daughter witnessed it and called Fish and Game on her cell phone then stayed in her truck to watch. It is a very dangerous situation in this residential area. Anyone who accidentally comes across that kill and the bear could lose their life. The Fish and Game and Troopers are in there now with 12 guages at the ready keeping an eye on the bear with it's kill to be sure where it is and to warn the neighborhood of the danger. At the moment the bear is dragging the carcass around the perimeter of a small pothole lake while the cow moose frantically circles the same lake.

    Now, to the point, after the Troopers first entered the forest, a photographer followed close behind. He was immediately escorted out, armed Trooper in front and one behind, put in his vehicle and sent packing. He wasted the Troopers' valuable time. If I knew who it was, he'd hear a few choice words from me.

    Rant over now. Thanks for listening. I know none of us here would be so foolish.
     
  2. Okay, so the guy wanted to shoot some and he wasn't aware of the danger. I understand him.
     
  3. The guy definitely should've exercised better judgement...but like NB, I understand the desire to try to get some once-in-a-lifetime shots.

    Similarly, I've always wondered about those combat photographers who go into the midst of a heated battle. Many people look at them as heroic; I think they're insane. If I ever find myself in any kind of military action, I can only hope I'm armed with more than my Nikon.
     
  4. Gale

    Gale

    978
    Jan 26, 2005
    Viera Fl
    Wow
    I would imagine you see alot of that up there

    Think I would kept my distance and wish for a hubble telescope:>))
     
  5. I'm sorry; maybe the guy did want "the shot of a lifetime," but that is no excuse for his actions. Any nature photographer worth his profession makes a point of knowing his/her subject, and a bear on a kill (especially in a residential area) is not a subject to be taken lightly. This is perhaps the first lesson in "Bear 101," and anyone who ventures into bear country should know this. In addition, his actions are as unethical as they are inexcusable. He puts the bear in as much jeopardy as himself, for any bear that menaces people (even if the bear is "innocently exhibiting 'normal bear behavior'" [such as 'protecting a kill] is deemed a 'troublesome bear' and usually eliminated). Not too many years ago (three years) four bears were "eliminated" in The Tetons, all because people foolishly ignored good judgement (in most instances they left food unattended in picnic sites). The bears paid the ultimate price for peoples' stupidity. Game management and law enforcement people have a tough enough time doing their job protecting both game animals and the public without photgraphers making the situation worse. As the old adage says, "...ignorance is no excuse."
     
  6. alaskahutch

    alaskahutch

    Jun 22, 2006
    Soldotna
    Well said, DW. Thanks. The man in question lives around here somewhere and surely knows the consequences.
     
  7. I would have to say that if anyone should have been thrown out it's the TROOPERS going in after a grizzliy with 12 gauge I assume would be shotguns. Rather a stinging thing to a hungry grizzly (bound to piss it off a bit) and at least one high powered rifle should have been there and in the right hands and the bear should have been shot on the spot if a safe shot with a rifle could be taken. This is a sad thing but the only way as no matter what the bear is the looser. It would seem that the person wanting to get a photo is like many other amature photgrapher. I would tend to think not to many on this forum make a living with a camera so I guess we are mostly all amatures and we will take chances because we are not pros. But does anyone know if this person is just an amature, hey maybe he knows what he is doing as I don't think the troopers do. I can't judge the person wanting to take a photo but as for the rest of the story, welll I would hate to go against any grizzley with a shotgun.
    Lou
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2007
  8. Stupidity tends to be self-correcting - the yutz can still breed...
     
  9. I have to add this photo to this post as I guess I am one of those stupid wildlife photographers looking for a photo:biggrin::biggrin: OK all kidding aside I realize this is not a grizzly but how would you feel if caught in the act by some wildlife photographer. Yeah it happened to me as I stumbled onto it in the woods and I actually got off 3 photos but the shutter click made them both turn around and look right at me. I left quickly cause you can not run from a bear and I got away with it. Would I do it again???? In a New York minuet
    Lou
    515202162_781f783172_o.
     
  10. jcdoss

    jcdoss

    150
    Feb 20, 2007
    Kansas City
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PBI7H01&show_article=1

    Apparently even experts make false steps now and then.

    The worst part is that grizzlies apparently go for the head/face first. At least I've heard many reports saying so. I obviously have no experience. Not exactly a quick death or an easy rest-of-your-life if you should survive.
     
  11. This link is a point well taken but also it’s an entirely different matter. Here you have a situation of a guy walking through the woods in grizzly territory and he comes onto a female with a cub. (Why I don’t know, properly done this many times before) BINGO trouble unless you have a high powered rifle in the hands of a guide and they don’t allow that in Yellowstone so in this case you are right. The pro screwed up. Look at all the amateurs that photograph the grizzly in Alaska when the salmon are running. Most of them come home in one piece and because the bears are feeding and that’s all they have on there mind.
    Look at all the people that get bitten or mauled in that same park by smaller bears and right in the road just because they try to feed them. The bear in question already has its meal and it’s looking for a place to feast on it. I didn’t read anywhere about it threatening any one yet but you can bet your boots if you pop it with some shot from a shotgun you got trouble. The Troopers should just be there and the wildlife Dept. should make the call and maybe just tranquilize and transport at least once. We give a bad bear 2 strikes (tranquilized and transported) and the #3 is a bullet as it is the only way. A bad bear is one who breaks into homes for food, raids chicken coups and maybe kill a dog.
    Hey take a look at Wounded Mallards post (Running Amuck) and read what he has to say about diamondback rattlers. Dead is dead no matter how it happens.
    O yeah how about those people that live in Ca. and lke to run and bike and have mountain lions waiting for them or worse cases where the lion followed the runner and took her on the run like game. Tough world and a good forum.
    Lou
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2007
  12. Well, to the original story from Alaskahutch - I think I would never go after a bear! They're too fast, too strong and if they feel threatened, they'll attack. Sure I'd like to someday have a photo of a bear, BUT I'm not gonna do something stupid like go after it when its' hungry and looking for a place to have its' meal! I'd rather go with one of those professional guides. Thanks for the eye-opening story! I can only imagine what it was like to witness such a sight!
     
  13. A 12 gauge shotgun with slugs will stop a truck, down a tree, etc. No better close range utensil for that type of situation IMHO. That said I would think the officers were probably trying to protect the bear as much as the people.

    Best,

    Jose
     
  14. bob swanson

    bob swanson Guest

    :cool:How about the thought that the "Troopers" didn't want a photographer around to document their behavior? Again, not being there I can't really say.
    www.bsvirginian.smugmug.com
     
  15. Sorry Jose but ballistics says your wrong
    A smoothbore "slug gun" with rifle sights will usually shoot groups in the 3" (6 MOA) range at 50 yards/meters, making them satisfactory deer hunting weapons at short range. An occasional example will do better, and some do worse. Their effective deer hunting range is limted by their accuracy, but the slug itself is dangerous to other hunters at far greater distances, an important point to keep in mind.
    Compared to practically any big game rifle bullet, rifled slugs are not very accurate. They are a short range (100 yard or less) proposition at best. The ballistic coefficient (BC) and sectional density of rifled slugs is pretty pitiful. The only place they score high numbers is in recoil, where low numbers are desired. Shooting groups from a bench rest with a slug gun is not fun, as the recoil is considerable. If possible, always use a rifle in preference to a slug gun for any kind of big game hunting.http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
    Having loaded many high powered rifle bullets for varmint hunting in my younger days I will take the least a 30-06 with a 180 gr bullet for any large big game. This combo will out produce the 12 gauge slug even at 500 yards
    (1135 Foot Lbs of energy) I’ll take the rifle any day over a shotgun slug. I also didn’t see any thing mentioned about the use of slugs or for that matter about a tranquilizer dart.
    End of discussion for me as this is off the forum topic I think and besides I have sold just about all my guns and loading equipment.
    Lou
     
  16. alaskahutch

    alaskahutch

    Jun 22, 2006
    Soldotna
    Thanks, Josef. You are correct. The only reason the Troopers carry the shotguns is to protect life and property as a last resort in close quarters.

    It's not about ballistics but about quick response to a charging bear. Rifles are better in their place but this is not the place.

    Lou, this is not about a bad bear but an effort to keep it from being such.

    BTW, so far, the bear has been protected. The only loser in this confrontation was the cow moose.
     
  17. Bill Please read my PM.
    Lou
     
  18. Wow interesting report. When I was up fishing last June on the Kenai river we were told there were no grizzly's there. Well I guess the report was wrong.

    I have seen grizzly's up close both in Jasper and Glacier National parks and I gave them a wide birth both times. I managed to get a few pictures of them yesterday here in Washington State at a place called NW Trek. Much safer for sure.

    This is a good lesson for all of us and I will know not to get between a bear and a kill. I think I already knew this but still good to hear again. Thanks.

    By the way you live in a beautiful area.
     
  19.  
  20. Hey Jim who told you that, the guy selling the bait??? :biggrin:
    Take a look at this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_decade
    Take a look at he one on May, 25, 1999 now look where this post started.
    Lou
     
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