Bridge problem in CS3

[Pa]

I am a newcomer to PS/CS3, having only gotten it last week. Today, I took a bunch of shots with the D200 saving both NEFs and large, fine, jpegs. When I look at them in Bridge, the NEFs and jpegs initially look identical, but once I click on a NEF, the color balance becomes much yellower. The yellow cast remains after opening them in CS3.

I'm sure it has to do with some default settings in Bridge or perhaps in the camera, but I don't know where to look. The jpegs have a more natural color to my eyes, and I'd like to preserve it.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. I never noticed this with CS2.

 

[Pa]

Update

Same thing happens with CS2. Thus it must be my in-camera settings for jpegs, and I just noticed because I have been shooting only RAW with the D200 until yesterday.

Still studying, but would be happy to receive suggestions.

 

[j_b_l]

Here's what happens to me...

I load my NEFs into bridge and select the "Vertical Filmstrip" workspace. The thumbnails along the right look like I would expect...but once I click on a thumbnail, the picture that shows in the "Preview" area becomes much different...like some sort of auto adjustment has taken place...not sure what's happening. It's generally too saturated and WB is off...but something is happening.

I fix most in ACR, but just thought I would share my experiences.

 

[Pa]

Here's what happens to me...

I load my NEFs into bridge and select the "Vertical Filmstrip" workspace. The thumbnails along the right look like I would expect...but once I click on a thumbnail, the picture that shows in the "Preview" area becomes much different...like some sort of auto adjustment has taken place...not sure what's happening. It's generally too saturated and WB is off...but something is happening.

Sounds pretty much like what I am experiencing.

 

[Doug Barber]

Oh I'll follow this one as I just loaded CS3... But have not even opened bridge yet. This thread will give me some heads as to what I will have to deal with once I get that far.
Just need to deal with the CS3 differences first....lol

 

[Pa]

Oh I'll follow this one as I just loaded CS3... But have not even opened bridge yet.

Well as you see above, this experience is not limited to CS3; it also happens in CS2.

 

[davidwcramer]

This is also my experience with both PSCS2 and now CS3. I have chalked it up to the fact ACR does not read NEF file white balance accurately. I almost always have to adjust the WB in ACR. It's a pain, but my workflow will often start out with Capture (now NX) for raw, with a transfer to PS as a tif to finish up.

 

[Toklat]

This is also my experience with both PSCS2 and now CS3. I have chalked it up to the fact ACR does not read NEF file white balance accurately. I almost always have to adjust the WB in ACR. It's a pain, but my workflow will often start out with Capture (now NX) for raw, with a transfer to PS as a tif to finish up.

Same here. I often find it easier to start with NX, then on to CS3 with a tif file.

 

[Pa]

O.K. I guess I'm ready to try NX, but I'm not ready to buy it until I'm sure it will do what I want.

Does anyone know if I can download a trial version for both my desktop and my laptop?

 

[hillrg]

O.K. I guess I'm ready to try NX, but I'm not ready to buy it until I'm sure it will do what I want.

Does anyone know if I can download a trial version for both my desktop and my laptop?

I am not having a WB problem with either ACR 4 or Lr, albeit shooting with a D2X. Adobe recently made significant improvements to the D2X WB, but I do not know about the D200. Note that the ACR 4 (CS3) version is better than the 3.X versions of ACR.

Reading the thread, I am not quite clear on where you see the differences - is it in ACR or in Bridge? If you are viewing a NEF in Bridge, then you are looking at the embedded in-camera jpg in the NEF, which should be quite similar to the in-camera generated jpg. If you are viewing the NEF in ACR, then you are looking at the adobe interpretation of the WB, which is sometimes quite different than the in-camera generated jpg or NX.

Usually this can be corrected in the camera calibration tab in ACR by adjusting the red hue and saturation sliders (decrease the red hue and increase the red saturation). You can save your settings. Here is a link with some suggested settings.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=17605133

BTW, reviewing these settings, I did not have to make such draconian adjustments when I calibrated my camera using a MB color checker and the Fors calibration script.

Hope this helps...

 

[Pa]

I am not having a WB problem with either ACR 4 or Lr, albeit shooting with a D2X. Adobe recently made significant improvements to the D2X WB, but I do not know about the D200. Note that the ACR 4 (CS3) version is better than the 3.X versions of ACR.

Reading the thread, I am not quite clear on where you see the differences - is it in ACR or in Bridge?

Thanks, Rory. I do have the latest version of ACR.

When I open bridge and see the jpegs and NEFs side-by-side, they look identical. If I select the NEF with a mouse-click, the image color balance immediately changes to a less natural one (more yellow). If I proceed to open it in ACR with two clicks, this unnatural color-balanced image is the one which comes up. I have so far been unable to match the colors of the jpeg with adjustments in ACR - there are too many choices!

I looked at the link you suggested, but the 18-200VR is not listed.

 

[Pa]

Here is an example.

First, the jpeg, straight from the camera, downsized for posting:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

Next, the NEF, with no color adjustments, just converted to jpeg (using ACR) and downsized for the web:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

 

[Luke_Miller]

When I open bridge and see the jpegs and NEFs side-by-side, they look identical. If I select the NEF with a mouse-click, the image color balance immediately changes to a less natural one (more yellow). If I proceed to open it in ACR with two clicks, this unnatural color-balanced image is the one which comes up. I have so far been unable to match the colors of the jpeg with adjustments in ACR - there are too many choices!

Not an expert, but here is how it believe it works.

The jpeg version is an in-camera processed image using all of the camera settings at the time the shot was made. All of those settings are recorded (but not applied) in the NEF version of the image. If you open the NEF and jpeg in Nikon Capture, the camera settings are applied to the NEF and the two versions (NEF & jpeg) will appear identical. If you bring the NEF and jpeg files into bridge, the two will initially look the same because Bridge at first displays the embedded jpeg in the NEF file. But soon Bridge will apply the ACR default settings to the NEF and produce its own thumbnail which will then look different. It looks different because Bridge/ACR ignores (other than white balance) all (tone, colorspace, etc.) camera settings recorded in the NEF file.

If you have ACR set to a different colorspace (I think AdobeRGB is the default) than your camera - the difference between NEF and jpeg can be even greater. My ACR default settings pretty much match my in-camera setting so the differences are not that great. Another factor is the camera profile used by the NEF converter. The profile used has a big effect on the colors of in the image and each application seems to use a different profile and thus creates a different "look" to the image.

 

[Pa]

Not an expert, but here is how it believe it works.

The jpeg version is an in-camera processed image using all of the camera settings at the time the shot was made. All of those settings are recorded (but not applied) in the NEF version of the image. If you open the NEF and jpeg in Nikon Capture, the camera settings are applied to the NEF and the two versions (NEF & jpeg) will appear identical. If you bring the NEF and jpeg files into bridge, the two will initially look the same because Bridge at first displays the embedded jpeg in the NEF file. But soon Bridge will apply the ACR default settings to the NEF and produce its own thumbnail which will then look different. It looks different because Bridge/ACR ignores (other than white balance) all (tone, colorspace, etc.) camera settings recorded in the NEF file.

Thanks, Luke. I'm sure you are right about that. The question is, would NX recognize the in-camera jpeg settings and apply them to the NEF? I guess I'll just have to download it and give it a try.

 

[Lowolf]

Rory is quite right you can save the settings and he is quite right on what bridge is displaying in the previews and what you see in ACR.

 

[Luke_Miller]

The question is, would NX recognize the in-camera jpeg settings and apply them to the NEF? I guess I'll just have to download it and give it a try.

Yes, Capture (and Capture NX) will recognize the camera settings contained in the NEF and convert the NEF in the same way the camera processed the jpeg.

 

[Pa]

Yes, Capture (and Capture NX) will recognize the camera settings contained in the NEF and convert the NEF in the same way the camera processed the jpeg.

Thanks again, Luke. I have just downloaded the 30-day trial version of Capture NX, and I'll have to say it does make a very big difference in color accuracy. I may have to buy the license.

So the next question is, how far do you go with NX before moving to Photoshop?

 

[davidwcramer]

I usually use NX (or Capture previously) just to adjust white balance, exposure, and then resizing, if needed. Then I take the image into PS as a tiff file.

Apparently Adobe is just about to release ACR 4.1, and David Cardinal is reporting that it fixes this descrepency. Both my D2x and D200 raw files come into my current ACR (4.0) with inaccurate white balance, just as it did in PSCS2. You may not need to buy NX, Jim!

 

[Pa]

Apparently Adobe is just about to release ACR 4.1, and David Cardinal is reporting that it fixes this descrepency. Both my D2x and D200 raw files come into my current ACR (4.0) with inaccurate white balance, just as it did in PSCS2. You may not need to buy NX, Jim!

Actually, 4.1 is what I am using, and I don't see any difference.

 

[davidwcramer]

Actually, 4.1 is what I am using, and I don't see any difference.

Ugh!! I was hoping it would be an improvement!