Challenge Rules - What do you think?

[misupix]

I don't mind how you make changes, but keep in mind that this forum is NOT suposed to be for "professionals only". nor is it meant to exclude people who are not "computer experts".

So, if you establish difficult rules, conditions, technical requirements, etc., you may prohibit members (you know, those IMPORTANT people in this forum) from joining the "contests".

I understand that this makes it more difficult to design and establish rules that keep it honest, make the submissions uniform, and make it a "level playing field".....but the most important issue and focus must be making this aforum that can be enjoyed and used by ALL members!

Everything you wrote is absolutely right, Ken!

Is is my prime objective to make this as simple as possible! That's what this Thread is for! :biggrin:

What exactly do you find to difficult?
Maybe I can make certain changes to make it simpler or clear things up?

If you refer to the Exif: I (or someone else) will have to write some FAQ to explain easy ways to do it.
Andreas idea of a minimal set is also Great and can easily be typed in by hand!

I think resizing pictures to certain pixel sizes can be explained also!

 

[beaucamera]

Everything you wrote is absolutely right, Ken!
Yes, Ken, hit the nail on the head and I think we all agree on this.

Maybe I can make certain changes to make it simpler or clear things up?

If you refer to the Exif: I (or someone else) will have to write some FAQ to explain easy ways to do it.
Andreas idea of a minimal set is also Great and can easily be typed in by hand!

Hey, Mike, I have still have to question the wisdom of EXIF as a requirement. I'd sure like to have it as an option.

I think resizing pictures to certain pixel sizes can be explained also!
As a point of information, Mike, one thing I learned in my web design class was that if you want something to fit completely on one screen that you need to allow for "browser space". If you want to be able to page through images, the maximum image size should probably be a width of 800 pixels and a height of 600 pixels.

Virginia
aka beaucamera

 

[AFS]

EXIF isn't really hard to see, worst case you can always open up in Nikon Capture, View, or PictureProject or another program and retype the key parts of it if you can't copy/paste.

However I am a bit worried about the voting span. This is definitely the most active challenge i've seen- but remember people will sometimes put off actually looking and voting- if we have too short a time period, we lower the amount of votes unless people are very aware of the comp.

I just hope one day I get a place :smile:

 

[greyflash]

I have no problems with the rules as you have submitted them. Good job.

 

[cknight]

Overall I think the rules are pretty good/fair, but I have a few ideas.

- I think there are too many threads for each challenge. The topic and submission threads can be combined, just put the topic in the first message of the submission thread. The voting and winner threads could also be combined. After voting has completed, the first message could be edited with the winner info.

-Although I can see the point in requiring the entry to be taken between certain dates, it annoys me. I often don't have time, or don't come up with ideas within the date ranges. But I might have a pic I took 2 days before that would work. I would probably enter more if this rule weren't there. Maybe make it so that entries must be taken within the past 6 months (or 2).

-I like seeing the EXIF info of other entries, but I don't think it should be required.

 

[biggstr6]

Theres a free program you can download to see exif. "Opanda" by right clicking on the image.

 

[AFS]

Cknight has a point- perhaps giving a week or two before the challenge start through the end date for submission shooting would work.... though i'm happy how it is now.

 

[nfoto]

Theres a free program you can download to see exif. "Opanda" by right clicking on the image.

Not all image files will have EXIF present. For example I do process all my files to not have EXIF when presented on the web.

 

[Leigh]

I've been holding off on putting my 2 cents in...but here goes.

I like what Michael has come up with.

I think Exif should be required. But I also understand not all of us are so computer savvy that we know how to pull it and link it directly. If I don't have Patrick's help, then I just cut and paste it. It's that easy. Yes, Exif is provided to verify shooting date...but more importantly we learn from it. Seeing what F-stop or lens was used...was a flash fired or not....teaches us a method to achieve a certain result. I'm all for keeping it as a requirement.

I think 2 weeks for submission and 1 week for voting is fine. 2 weeks to come up with something usually is enough time for me. If I don't manage to come up with something, I know there is always the next Challenge to try. 1 week of voting is great since it gives those a chance who might not be able to vote during the week due to work or whatever.

I think that having the timeframe extended does away w/the part that makes it a challenge. "IF" it were opened up to say 2-6 months, it becomes (like Michael said) a "best picture that fits the category" rather than a challenge. It's a challenge for a reason. You have a time frame to come up with a submission. I like being challenged. I like pushing my abilities. Isn't that what this is all about....That and learning....

Topic thread and Submission thread are totally different. If there is discussion included in the submission thread, it get cluttered. Voting thread and Winners thread are different as well. Voting is where we vote. The winners thread is where the winners are showcased and congratulations are given. (This is a good instance where, IMHO, if it ain't broke, don't fix it).

I like what Michael has come up with...Just my 2cents added....

 

[nfoto]

If available, EXIF is nice. But there cannot be an obligation to shoot digital only? In my case, I copy EXIF from my database to the image posted. We have to trust the person submitting the picture, whether the EXIF is provided explictly with the image, or is in the file. Plenty of utilies can change EXIF if anyone wants to cheat, so we fall back to whether or not a person can be trusted. Let the time frame for a challenge be clearly stated, and trust the people submitting to the challenge that their contributions are within that period. We have to trust the contributors. Simple as that. Without mutual trust the Cafe community will erode.

 

[JustinD]

I have a suggestion. I don't think that the submissions should have to be limited to pictures taken during the submission period. As long as they fit the challenge subject than I think they should be allowed.

 

[jfenton]

I agree with Bjørn

I agree with him 100%.

This forum is based on us behaving ourselves, policing ourselves and others if need be and above all, we should have no distrust here whatsoever.

There are specific images I upload as well with no exif.....I know I'd never consider submitting something not eligible and therefore I simply expect everyone else would follow suit

 

[Ken-L]

Everything you wrote is absolutely right, Ken!

What exactly do you find to difficult?

I was speaking for "others" that I'm sure will have a problem, and may not want to voice their concerns less they be "looked down upon" by those members that feel they are elitist (I don't know who these might be.....nor would I presume to suggest that there are any - it's just a precaution.)

I have no problems at all...... I was a computer consultant for over ten years, and whether my photos have EXIF embedded or not I can paste it below a photo. It might be best for the EXIF to be pasted below the photo since many will not be able to extract it, or view it with Opanda or anything else. And, since there is a lot of EXIF data that is virtually worthless, we also need to know precisely what data will be required.

An Example:
Kate Smith, one of our famous and finest female vocalists, had "perfect pitch" and her singing is legendary. But Kate Smith couldn't read a note of music! So if she wanted to enter a contest that demanded she write out the notes to her submission, she would not be able to compete!

So, my suggestion is for the "Ansel Adamses" amongst us that don't know a bit from a byte, a pixel from a pixie, and think embedding is a good night's sleep!

 

[Gale]

This all seems to be no fun anymore.

To serious

 

[misupix]

This all seems to be no fun anymore.

To serious

Don't worry Gale, I am still enjoying this, this is democracy! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

It gets us further into...............................................?

 

[misupix]

Ok, just came back from different things (trust me you don't want to know......).

To summarize the last 14 posts:


Why not agree to this (I'm starting to feel like a true politician, except the lack of to much money :wink: :biggrin: ):

- EXIF isn't required as embedded Exif in the Picture (but wouldn't hurt either)
- The information about f-stop, time, used equipment..... maybe like Andrea suggested:

MINIMUM DATA SET:
Photo_Title Shooting_Date
D2X 50mm f2.8 1/300s ISO260
ShutterPri MatrixMetering​

is necessary and can be added either as Copied EXIf-Info or typed in manually.

Could this be a consent?



As for the requirement to take the picture in the submission time frame (No. 6 again):

- I think this should stay a requirement (if you don't think so please tell and argue for it!), but that is the thing, which makes this challenges so unique,
as stated in No. 6:

6. The picture has to be taken between the submission Start and End Date. This is to make it a Challenge and not just another "Best Picture Contest"
​

awaiting further discussion......

 

[Chris101]

I'd like to see less regulation of what is allowed for entries, not more. For example, why regulate picture size - if it's too big to see, it'll get less votes. Nikon Cafe suggests 960 wide as the max, but does not enforce this. Notice that most photos are no more than 960 wide.

Many images I post are 250-300K in size - it all depends on the content. If I have a lot of sky, then it'll be smaller, and if there is grass, then it's bigger. Again, pictures that take a long time to load will get less votes because of that, it's self regulating.

Entry time - This has bee two weeks in the past, and while this puts a hurry on things, it is long enough to get the job done. Much shorter and I'd have a hard time entering at all. We should not be trying to limit the entrants to only those with a lot of disposable time.

Voting time. It takes a while to look at and decide on one's vote. Two weeks is a bit long though. Maybe a week, 10 days? I'm not as adamant about this one.

Exif inclusion. Do the submissions need to be digital? I have considered entring film photos, and last I checked, they do not have exif. Plus exif data can be edited. I trust the folk here who enter these contests, and the value of the prize is low. Merely stating the date should suffice. Do we really need to know the focal length, iso, exposure and other data? And with imbedded exif, it takes extra steps to retrieve it. I think we should only require a certified date by declaration of the photographer.

My comments here are mine alone and do not reflect the opinions of the Nikon Cafe.

 

[beaucamera]

Ok, just came back from different things (trust me you don't want to know......).

To summarize the last 14 posts:


Why not agree to this (I'm starting to feel like a true politician, except the lack of to much money :wink: :biggrin: ):

- EXIF isn't required as embedded Exif in the Picture (but wouldn't hurt either)
- The information about f-stop, time, used equipment..... maybe like Andrea suggested:

MINIMUM DATA SET:
Photo_Title Shooting_Date
D2X 50mm f2.8 1/300s ISO260
ShutterPri MatrixMetering​

is necessary and can be added either as Copied EXIf-Info or typed in manually.

Could this be a consent?

We're getting closer, Mike, and I'm glad you are still grinning. (Now, if we could just get Gale on line, I'd like to see her grinning too.) Come on Gale. :biggrin: Let's have a big grin :biggrin:

On the matter of EXIF, I'm still holding out for EXIF being an option. Bjorn's got a good point about not requiring it and I have yet another. I do a lot of work with image composites where I use more than one image in a composition. There often isn't a single parameter to use; there are many. I also use my images for multiple purposes so embedding is neither convenient nor easy. The format you've suggested above is good, but please make this a request not a requirement.

As for the requirement to take the picture in the submission time frame (No. 6 again):

- I think this should stay a requirement (if you don't think so please tell and argue for it!), but that is the thing, which makes this challenges so unique,
as stated in No. 6:

6. The picture has to be taken between the submission Start and End Date. This is to make it a Challenge and not just another "Best Picture Contest"
​

awaiting further discussion......

Virginia
aka beaucamera

P.S. Thanks for your patience and good natured responses. Hope everything is okay on your end!

 

[Gale]

I agree with chris....Less is better.

I have to live by to many "useless rules" already. Photography is a fun thing.

But then I am not really good enough to enter these anyway.

So bottom line I guess I don't really care.

 

[dmwphoto]

I like Micheal's original idea, with Bjorn's level headed comments added. It is a challenge because one has to create a picture to enter, not search an archive. This will help us all improve our skills and level the playing field.
But what do I know?
Dave