Challenge Talk and Suggestions

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It never even occurred to me to ask others to vote for my photos! This is purely fun, no? Do the winners get anything tangible (other than the right to say their 2009 pic won at the nikoncafe)?

I thought it was supposed to be about enjoyment of photos and learning how to get better...
Yes, it is to be about fun, to learn and to grow! :smile: And no, no tangible rewards, just the fun of entering and the joy of the contest.

While I agree with Wowzer I also feel the mod's should not be allowed to participate. Not that the mod's did anything wrong in this challenge, it does bring up questions as to the integrity of the vote.
How does my entry affect the voting? In a 'normal' challenge, the entries are anonymous. Look back at older Challenge entry threads, there are no user names, the photos are entered by a 'bot. Voting is done w/out knowing who the entrants are. I fail to see any manipulation or 'conflict of interest' in a contest in which the entries are anonymous.

This summer, I won one of the Challenges, and as such, hosted the next one. The host is allowed to enter. I entered a photo that was fun for me to try to shoot.........to see if I could pull it together. The photo won. It was most awkward anouncing myself as the winner, yet no one complained or cried COI at that time. Matter of fact, people were very supportive (despite my embarrassment) both publicaly and privately.
 
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Yes, it is to be about fun, to learn and to grow! :smile: And no, no tangible rewards, just the fun of entering and the joy of the contest.



How does my entry affect the voting? In a 'normal' challenge, the entries are anonymous. Look back at older Challenge entry threads, there are no user names, the photos are entered by a 'bot. Voting is done w/out knowing who the entrants are. I fail to see any manipulation or 'conflict of interest' in a contest in which the entries are anonymous.

This summer, I won one of the Challenges, and as such, hosted the next one. The host is allowed to enter. I entered a photo that was fun for me to try to shoot.........to see if I could pull it together. The photo won. It was most awkward anouncing myself as the winner, yet no one complained or cried COI at that time. Matter of fact, people were very supportive (despite my embarrassment) both publicaly and privately.
Your entry alone does not affect the voting. Your entry along with the ability to manipulate the votes COULD affect the results. I am not suggesting that anything deceitful happened. What I am saying is that it puts a question in my mind as to the integrity of the outcome.
If the president of the United States was able to vote for him/her self AND manipulate the votes...well, you get the picture.

Again, let's learn from this and move on...
 
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Your entry alone does not affect the voting. Your entry along with the ability to manipulate the votes COULD affect the results. I am not suggesting that anything deceitful happened. What I am saying is that it puts a question in my mind as to the integrity of the outcome.
If the president of the United States was able to vote for him/her self AND manipulate the votes...well, you get the picture.

Again, let's learn from this and move on...

With all those accusations going on here, I'm not sure there will be a future to move on to...


We've gone through a lot to ensure a good way to run the challenges. Anonymous posting, vote-counting by the challenge leader (and the someone from the mod team).
Questions and decisions concerning problems during a certain challenge are always decided from the challenge leader together with the mod-team to ensure the best possible outcome.

I don't know how many times we refined the rules to cover possible circumstances.

All former challenges, including the voting-threads and result-threads are there in the challenge-forum to read (and recheck).


You're invited to check the vote-counts of the challenges!
 
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With all those accusations going on here, I'm not sure there will be a future to move on to...


We've gone through a lot to ensure a good way to run the challenges. Anonymous posting, vote-counting by the challenge leader (and the someone from the mod team).
Questions and decisions concerning problems during a certain challenge are always decided from the challenge leader together with the mod-team to ensure the best possible outcome.

I don't know how many times we refined the rules to cover possible circumstances.

All former challenges, including the voting-threads and result-threads are there in the challenge-forum to read (and recheck).


You're invited to check the vote-counts of the challenges!
Sir, read my last post again. I said that I am not accusing anyone of anything. What I am saying is that being able to enter and manipulate the votes brings a question to my mind.
I am sorry if you feel like I made accusations. I was only pointing out how I felt.
This is turning into a pi$$ing contest. Lets agree to disagree and please, lets move on.
 

Commodorefirst

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Sir, read my last post again. I said that I am not accusing anyone of anything. What I am saying is that being able to enter and manipulate the votes brings a question to my mind.
I am sorry if you feel like I made accusations. I was only pointing out how I felt.
I understand how it made you feel, but you are stating that I cannot simply enter a challenge because I am a mod or administrator? Think about what that makes me feel like. It makes me feel like I am not trustworthy, I cheat, I will manipulate the count, and many other things. Works both ways this feeling bit, and by stating it brings a question to your mind, makes me feel accused.

By the way, for the record, Michael was not the only mod/admin overseeing and counting the votes, several of us were, and all the moderating team was involved with the discussion on the vote removals. In stuff like this, it is too easy to overlook important rules, and considerations regarding the vote, a simple only members current as to the start of the challenge for the year long thread are eligible to vote would have solved the problem, but we didn't think about this. long sigh.......

I don't think some folks realize the time, and the amount of fine tuning that is done on this forum and with the threads, layout, challenges, rules, etc. etc. etc. on the Nikon Cafe. There is no way to humanly have contingencies for everything, and we had to make a team decision, which we did.
 
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First of all, I congratulate all the winners, as well as the others who have participated and posted some outstanding pictures. Secondly, I thank and appreciate all the moderators for devoting their time and effort in hosting the challenge and maintain the integrity of the Cafe.

As some of the previous posts have mentioned, the Cafe is supposed to be a fun community for members to share, enjoy and learn from others. It's a place for us to relax and enjoy our hobby after a hard day of work. Furthermore, it's a NON-PROFIT commercial free site that is maintained by a group of VOLUNTEERs. Mods are also members of the Cafe, it doesn't seem fair to deprive their privilege in contest/challenge participation. If we are to enforce this rule, does that mean they aren't allowed to make comments on any of the forums? That doesn't make sense, not only they got their privilege deprieved for just volunteering, but we will miss the opportunity to see some of the great photos.

We deal with enough government legislation and corporate policies in our daily life. The last thing I want in the cafe is to have to read through 50 pages of user terms and agreements on every single contest and challenge. The challenge is meant to be fun and give us a thread to enjoy some amazing photos collectively. Let's just have some common sense and move on.
 
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I agree that the Mods and Admins should have the right to submit photos. This is supposed to be enjoyable and visually stimulating. I want to know what is going to be the subject of the next contest!

Perhaps January's Best? Or Best of Winter?
 
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I want to know what is going to be the subject of the next contest!

Perhaps January's Best? Or Best of Winter?
Typically, the contest topic is set by the winner. We're still working out kinks on an updated format for the Challenge, hope to have something out soon. :smile:
 
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It's clear to me that I am fighting a loosing battle here. I have asked to move on at least two times but some of you refuse to let it alone so, I shall be quite and fade away...
Good bye, Good luck, Good health.
I am sorry if I offended anyone during my stay here at Nikon Cafe.
 
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Very sad to see the blowback over this contest.
The entered photographs are outstanding, super depth of talent at the Cafe.
Everyone keep shooting in the new year, improving skills and vision. Hanging out here will help develop both by exposure to such a variety of high quality work.
Now...let's all make nice and get out and shoot.
 
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Stacy was the real winner. Nothing personal big guy shatarka :)

If I had the responsibility to design a photography contest as well as being the main representative from management to run that contest and be the crew chief umpire to the actual play, it would look funny if I were to win multiple times. It would look even funnier if I were the person who won more times than anyone else in the whole history of the challenges.

Factoid...MCS has won more challenges than anyone else. A total of six 1st place finishes and numerous other top 3 placements while he has been running the challenges. And yes he is a very gifted photographer in my humble opinion.

Food for thought.

The challenges should be open to all members of the cafe including management. However, to prevent any real or imaginary perceptions of a conflict of interest, management personal who enter a challenge should ideally abstain from directing the hosts, all decision making input, and other managerial responsibilities relative to that specific challenge. At times as humans we all make subconscious decisions which work to our advantage. Just my throw back from my ethics course at Wharton.

If one of managerial responses to this fiasco is to make more rules prohibiting the community out reach to postings asking for votes on other websites... you are blind to what makes the cafe special...it the community friendship and kindness with joins us together. I forget how may times I voted in that GAP girl contest so she could win and be on Rachel Ray :)
 
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It pretty easy to make accusations without proving anything.

It's pretty hard to defend against such accusations. Do I have to? That's for every members to decide.


...you could count the participations-to-winning-ratio in all the former challenges.
...or you could ask all the former Challenge Leaders how I manipulated their vote-counting (Because that is the Challenge Leaders task)




Oh, it seems I have already manipulated several other websites:

http://www.photopoints.com/main/photos/photographer.aspx?ID=22869

http://www.photos-of-the-year.com/portfolio.php?member=mcs

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/extra/egallery/pcat/178500/display/10858078




I don't know why you hold a grudge against me personally, I 've always admired your work. But it seems I can't do anything to change your opinion about me.
 
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Hi MCS,

I guess it comes down to the simple question...is there a perceptual conflict of interest to be the head umpire in games where you are also a contestant ?


You already know my answer and I believe I know yours. :)

Sorry for my raging, time for me to drop the issue. No grudge, I've just been in a strange argumentative mood for the past few weeks.


Peace
 
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I claim no victory. I honestly blame no one of any wrong doing. I thank the mod's for doing the best they could. The talent & people here are Stellar!
So many i look up to for inspiration! Lets take a collective deep breath & learn from this & move on! Keep :smile:ing & shooting! Thanks, steve
 
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I just want to say this: Michael is extremely ethical, and is way above any suggestion that he works the Nikon Cafe Challenge to his advantage. Bear in mind that he has been doing all the hard work of keeping the Challenge running since nearly it's inception. This Challenge happened because Michael put in the (volunteer) work to make it happen. This was supposed to be the 'come back' challenge that let everyone play. We (the moderators) decided that it should have been about Cafe members, and so we made the decision we did. Hopefully that won't be a deal stopper.

Stacey was basing her actions on what she saw being done by others here and at other websites. We do not condone those sort of measures here, but vote garnering is part of the internet. We have no hard feelings about this, and congratulate Stacey on having such fine photographs. Surely they would do well in any contest. In the end however, we decided not to allow the votes that resulted from external advertising. I am sorry that your model friend was caught up in that.

There are no bad guys here. Hopefully we can learn from this experience and move to a better future, with better Challenges to come.

Ultimately, congratulations Steve. Your picture epitomizes the Cafe - the pet dog and the ball, perfectly captured. It really is a very cool photo.
 
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Thank you!

First a huge thanks for the organizers of the "comeback challenge". Second a congratulations to the selected images for their "best of the thread" status. Finally (thirdly) when's the next one? Whats the topic? Rites of spring? Spring cleaning? A general challenge on who can send me the coolest lens as an Easter present? :)
 

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