Critique of images

[gmaker1]

As usual, I am late to the table. I was reading the critique discussion threads in another area. I noticed that people were asking for some advice on how to critique, etc. Here is a url to an article that may be helpful to everyone: http://www.naturephotographers.net/je1001-1.html

Gil

PS: Would still like to see a seperate area for critique. Is it possilbe to put this up for a vote of members?

 

[Steve S]

While I normally wouldn't want to see more categories,

I think this is a great idea! There's a lot of cheerleading taking place around here, and that's a good thing too. ppl need to have their efforts rewarded, and their egos stroked.
I agree, I think we do need a special area where certain shots are "taken apart", so to speak, at the request of the photographer. I think it's the best way to learn & to improve. However, the photog should know going in, that his or her pic is going to be dissected, and should never be offended by whatever anyone says... not to mention, to always take their "critique" with a healthy grain of salt.

 

[Joe_Lorenzini]

I think this is a GREAT idea and one I've yet to see anywhere else.

I'd like a place where the critques can be brutal (not hurtful mind you) and honest. I'm not talking about comments like "I don't like it" but more like "blown highlights, composition if off, etc..." followed by suggestions on how to correct it.

Of course anyone who posts there would need to be thick-skinned enough to take it and there probably should be some sort of disclosure thread at the top explaining that it isn't a bash session but a learning one.

I know I'd post there. I need the help!

_/oe

 

[Retief]

A pretty good set of guidelines, and what I like best is that it allows the freedom for all of the "differences of opinion" which inevitably show up. The other point they make, which I often forget to do when I ask for a critique, is to give an explanation of why I may have done something, a crop for instance, or some "strange" lighting.

Good link and suggestion, Gil, and while I would not mind a specific Critique area, I would like to see this type of thing adopted across the board as well. The nice thing about a separate area is that, well, it is specific :wink: .

One last point, I know that I, for one, would not be just posting what I, very humbly, consider my best but some things that I know I have problems with, and I already have a list of millions... . I think this is a very important part of the critique and learning process, this should not just be for the "Wow" images, but for those "Why the heck AREN't these Wow" pictures.

Since you started this thread, why don't you ask Patrick and Frank how best to get a sense from the members as to how useful this would be? My guess is you will get more than just your own vote......

 

[JeffKohn]

I've seen that article in the past, definitely some useful guidelines there. I don't know that I like the idea of separate critiques forum, things can get too fragmented. Rather would I suggest is that posters give some indication of the type of feedback they're looking for when posting an image. If somebody just posts something and says "hey, look at this" I probably wouldn't write an in-depth critique, but on the other hand if they ask for feedback/suggestions then I would be more likely to.

 

[gmaker1]

Retief, Joe and Steve:

Thanks for the feedback. There are threads about crtiques in the forum. I hope Patrick and Frank will read this thread. If not, I will send this thread to the another part of the forum to get their attention.

Gil

 

[Retief]

I've seen that article in the past, definitely some useful guidelines there. I don't know that I like the idea of separate critiques forum, things can get too fragmented. Rather would I suggest is that posters give some indication of the type of feedback they're looking for when posting an image. If somebody just posts something and says "hey, look at this" I probably wouldn't write an in-depth critique, but on the other hand if they ask for feedback/suggestions then I would be more likely to.

Jeff, I am actually of "mixed mind", versus my normal "mixed-up-mind", on the issue of a separate critique forum. I agree with you that having a way to ask for them in the "forum of choice" is very good, but where I think the separate forum is good is for people who would like to "give good critique" but who don't frequent each individual subject forum. It is a tough one, though, and I sure would support either.

 

[Uncle Frank]

I'd like a place where the critques can be brutal (not hurtful mind you) and honest. I'm not talking about comments like "I don't like it" but more like "blown highlights, composition if off, etc..." followed by suggestions on how to correct it.

Of course anyone who posts there would need to be thick-skinned enough to take it and there probably should be some sort of disclosure thread at the top explaining that it isn't a bash session but a learning one.

I know I'd post there. I need the help!

_/oe

If that's what you need, I'd suggest PhotoSig.com, or one of the other critique sites. The Cafe is a friendly gathering of photo-afficiandos, and the dynamics are based on common interest, helpfulness, and rapport. The critique sites are all about competition, and I don't know of one of them that's developed a sense of community.

 

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Hi Frank,

That's exactly why it 'should' work in the Cafe.

Community has been established. People here know each other, trust has been achieved. The critiques will be geniune, not one member trying to out-do another.

To me it's no different than having a "For Sale" forum. Trust is critical to it's success.

Besides, if it doesn't work, remove it.

_/oe

 

[gmaker1]

I would agree with Joe. The only reason that I am mentioning the idea again is because of the way we treat each other. I know that I do not post as much as most, but I would not be afraid to open up my images to critical assessment in this group. I do not think anyone here would make a comment that was malicious or cruel. I just think having a separate area is the way to go.

Gil

 

[Retief]

Far be it from me to agree with Joe and Gil, but I surely will.

I don't want "competitiion" I want help. I want to post an image that I know has problems and issues, and get help with that. A number of the folks who inhabit the Cafe have helped me with that in past, and I appreciate it. That is why I would call it the "critique" forum and not the "challenge" forum.

Make sense?

 

[Chris101]

I'm all for critiques guys, but what's wrong with asking for critique in the existing forums? By putting the word 'critique' or maybe just 'help me' in the subject title, you can invite others to go into critic mode, although if there are (what I preceive to be) blatant errors in a photo, I'll say so anyway.

But by declaring a post to be 'criticizable' you can direct what direction people go in, such as "Help me - how do i get rid of the &$%^%! magenta? or "Why is this boring? Help Me!" or use the general "Critique this please."

I'm gonna try it in the portrait forum later tonight.

 

[Uncle Frank]

I would agree with Joe.

I dont think so. In his own words, he wants... "a place where the critques can be brutal (not hurtful mind you)
and honest." But there's no way a critique can be brutal without being hurtful.

The only reason that I am mentioning the idea again is because of the way we treat each other.

Imho, if we turn this into a brutal critique site, the good will soon evaporate. And I'm speaking from experience.

I know that I do not post as much as most, but I would not be afraid to open up my images to critical
assessment in this group.

That's fine. All you have to do is post in the forum related to your picture and ask for criticism/advice.
There's a lot of talented folks that will be glad to help.

 

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Ok, brutal was the wrong word, a bit too strong.

There is truth in your sentiment Frank. I can see someone posting a picture in the critique forum and another forum and getting two completely different responses. That could create hurt feelings and distrust...

It's too bad a critique couldn't be made anonymously... but I suppose even that opens the door to extreme expressions.

Maybe your right...

 

[gho]

Well, yes, its nice to receive those nice compliments, and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy. But personally, I'd much rather have those brutally honest critiques.

I'm seeking to improve, not show off. I may not go out that instant and do as a poster sugguested, but I do rember it and do give it a try when the next opportunity I'm shooting.

If y'all see my posts in the future, please be brutally honest - really, don't worry about my feelings. I may be disappointed at first, but I'll get over it, and more importantly, I'll IMPROVE!!!!

 

[Uncle Frank]

If y'all see my posts in the future, please be brutally honest - really, don't worry about my feelings. I may be disappointed at first, but I'll get over it, and more importantly, I'll IMPROVE!!!!

Doesn't that depend on who is giving the advice, Gregory? In my experience, the least experienced photographers are the most prone to offer brutal criticism and advice... and it's usually to repeat something they've heard, but out of context. The high end amateurs and pros rarely offer advice, but you can learn the most from them by watching their postings and asking questions.

From what I've seen of your work, if you want someone at a higher skill level to give you suggestions, you're looking at a very small set of photographers.

 

[Steve S]

The more I think about it now, the less

I like of this dedicated "Critique Forum". The primary problem is that few, if any of us are skilled, enough to be a critic. Couple that with our general inabilities to properly express ourselves in the written word, and the lack of willingness to take the time necessary to even try to express what we feel in words, I'm now going to retract what I felt earlier, and go with Frank's sentiments.
If we want critique, then all we need do is ASK for it, and tell the viewer not to hold back what they think. This should be enough for most of us.

 

[Retief]

Hey, folks, I think we are getting way too hung up on this "brutally honest" teminology. Far too many people think that a critique has to be "brutal and harsh" to be worth anything, a sentiment with which I completely disagree. The other reality, even though I find that many "professional" critics disagree, is that in a medium as subjective as this, a critique is an opinion, and should be given and taken in that vein. I look at sites like those mentioned and find that some critiques I agree with, some I don't. Well, I like peas and I don't like broccoli too :lol: . And this is, I think, why I like the set of "critique standards" pointed to earlier in this thread.

Again, what I look for is good, constructive critiscm, a different point of view from people whose work I can compare to, and who, to at least some degree, give a rip about me as a person, and I think that is what is different here, the sense of community. Now, that may be the case at forums like photosig as well, I am not knocking those, but I know what the tenor of the conversations are here.

Once more, as to the "separate" critique forum issue. Let's say that I hope to get a critique on composition from someone that I know who shoots landscapes, but the image is a Bird shot. Do I post in the Birdie place and then send them a PM? This is why I think we should have both a separate forum for specific Critique issues as well as the ability to say "Critique this one please" in the forum of subject choice. We certainly have this ability already.

 

[bpetterson]

Critique- Whose?- Fooey.
I am not qualified, are you?

If you want it, ask for it from a qualified person, and PAY for it.
I don't mean on the forum.

I may not like your work, so I look and keep my big mouth shut.

I still do not understand that painting of a can of Campbell's tomato soup.

But look what it sold for.

Birger

 

[Uncle Frank]

I still do not understand that painting of a can of Campbell's tomato soup.

But look what it sold for.Birger

That's so funny! I never understood it, either :lol: :shock: :?