D700- Baby bear, Papa bear, now Momma bear?

G

Gary Mayo

Guest
Anybody here think this blending of two cameras is a little like what Fuji did with the S5?

To offer a sensor that is the same after a camera has been out using that sensor for 18 months is foolish in today's fast paced technology marketplace. If this offering would have been 14 or 16 or 18MP, then it would grab some headlines.

I think this effort to make another D3 in a smaller D300 body with the same old sensor is an error in judgment. And the viewfinder is only 95%!

From what I see released so far about this camera, it does not offer up anything not already offered on the two flagship cameras it offers now except less viewfinder.

So why the Momma bear offering?

Who is going to get this without a battery grip? No person that I know of. So once you saddle this with a grip, you have a $3500 camera. Once you add D3 batteries and a charger, you now have $3800. The D3 will be at $3995 in a month, it is already below $4500.

So to save a hundred bucks or a few hundred bucks, people are going to order a two piece body, striped down version of the D3?

Not me! Not interested. Give me the 24MP offering hinted at over the past months. I don't want a compromise camera that tries to do everything to everybody.

Nikon, IMHO, this offering is a fairytale straight out of the three bears. I'll keep my D3 & D300!
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
6,077
Location
Upstate SC
Gary, don't take offense, but as someone who has an apparent deep pocket when it comes to hobbies, your assessment seems a little warped. The D3 is more than a few hundred dollars more expensive than the real "street" price this camera will bring.

First, you're right - most people will want the grip at around $250. Now we're up to $3250 (msrp). Most people don't already have the D3 (or D2 series), so the EL4 isn't necessary. Another EL3 would be nice, though, so let's tack on another $45. Now we're up to $3295 (msrp).

This is still over $1000 less than the street price of the D3. Great if you can sneeze over than kind of money, but I sure can't. Its going to be a struggle for me to get one, but I'm gonna make it happen. The D3 is just out of my reach. Glad you can afford it, though.

I'll take the momma bear, and be glad I can.
 
T

TonyBeach

Guest
Who is going to get this without a battery grip? No person that I know of.
I will.

Give me the 24MP offering hinted at over the past months.
Some of us have budgetary limitations, and that camera will likely cost close to $7000 given what it will be competing against. It does bring up another temptation and one I might be quite content with if I can't afford a D700 this year, and that will be to buy a smaller body, more affordable D3x next summer (you heard it here first, that's my prediction).

I'll keep my D3 & D300!
That's perfectly understandable, but I like the idea of two smaller bodies covering both formats with one grip that boosts their fps; but I'm still debating the utility of the MB-D10 for my purposes.
 
G

Gary Mayo

Guest
Just The Facts Mam

First they gave us the Corvette and the Camaro, now we are being offered a Firebird?

I think the horn in this car sounds a lot like the horns in the other two cars. Honk Honk (not to be confused with Beep Beep)

FXImage Sensor Format
CMOSImage Sensor Type
36.0 x 23.9mmSensor Size
12.87 millionTotal Pixels
12.1 millionEffective Pixels
FX-format
(L) 4,256 x 2,832
(M) 3,184 x 2,120
(S) 2,128 x 1,416

DX-format
(L) 2,784 x 1,848
(M) 2,080 x 1,384
(S) 1,392 x 920Image Area (pixels)
5 frames per secondTop Continuous Shooting Speed at full resolution
FX-format
CH: Up to 5 frames per second
CL: Up to 4 frames per second
DX-format
CH: Up to 5 frames per second
CL: Up to 4 frames per secondContinuous Shooting Options
3 in. diagonalLCD Monitor Size
Wide Viewing Angle TFT-LCD
Super DensityLCD Monitor Type
920,000 DotsLCD Monitor Resolution
170-degree wide-viewing angleLCD Monitor Angle of View
Brightness, 7 levelsLCD Monitor Adjustments
30 sec.Slowest Shutter Speed
1/8000 sec.Fastest Shutter Speed
YesBulb Shutter Setting
YesMirror Lock Up
200 in steps of 1/3, 1/2, 1 EVLowest Standard ISO Sensitivity
6400 in steps of 1/3, 1/2, 1 EVHighest Standard ISO Sensitivity
Hi-2 (ISO 25,600 equivalent) Highest Expanded ISO Sensitvity
Lo-1 (ISO 100 equivalent), in steps of 1/3, 1/2, 1 EV
Hi-1 (ISO-12,800 equivalent), in 1/3, 1/2 or 1 EV steps
Hi-2 (ISO-25,600 equivalent), 1 EV step
Expanded ISO Sensitivity Options
CompactFlash© (Type I/II, compliant with UDMA)
MicroDrive©Storage Media
Uncompressed 12/14-bit NEF (RAW)
Uncompressed 12-bit NEF (RAW)
Compressed 12/14-bit NEF (RAW, Lossless compressed): approx. 60-80 percent
Compressed 12/14-bit NEF (RAW, Compressed): approx. 45-60 percent
JPEG: JPEG-baseline-compliant; can be selected from Size priority and Optimal Quality
TIFF (RGB)Storage System
Compliant with DCF 2.0
DPOF
EXIF 2.21File System
Programmed Auto (P) with Flexible Program
Shutter-Priority Auto (S)
Aperture-Priority Auto (A)
Manual (M)Exposure Modes
1,005-pixel RGB sensor 3D Color Matrix Metering IIExposure Metering System
0 to 20 EV (Matrix or Center-weighted metering);
2 to 20 EV (Spot metering) (ISO 100 equivalent, f/1.4 lens, at 20 degrees C/68 degrees F)
Metering Range
CPU
AIExposure Meter Coupling
±5 EV in increments of 1/3, 1/2, 1 EVEV in increments of 1/3, 1/2, 1Exposure Compensation
YesExposure Lock
Yes
From 2 to 9 exposures in increments of 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 or 1 EVExposure Bracketing
LiveView [LV] mode
Continuous low-speed [CL] mode; 1-4 frames per second Continuous high-speed [CH] mode; 5 frames per second Shutter Release Modes
Sun
Shade
Fluorescent
Incandescent
Flash
Preset
Fine Tune by Kelvin Color Temperature Setting
AutoWhite Balance
Yes, 2 to 9 exposures, in increments of 1, 2 or 3White Balance Bracketing
Handheld mode
Tripod modeLiveView Shooting
Full frame
Zoom
Slideshow
Histogram
Highlight point display
Auto image rotation
Thumbnail (4 or 9 segments) Playback Functions
Hi-speed USB
NTSC
PAL
HDMI
10-pin TerminalInterface
Nikon F mountLens Mount
1) Type G or D AF NIKKOR: All functions supported

2) DX AF NIKKOR: All functions supported except FX-format (36x24)/image size

3) AF NIKKOR other than type G or D*2: All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering II

4) AI-P NIKKOR: All functions supported except auto-focus and 3D Color Matrix Metering II

5) Non-CPU AI NIKKOR: Can be used in exposure modes A and M; electronic rangefinder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster; Color Matrix Metering and aperture value display supported if user provides lens data
Compatible Lenses
Equivalent to angle produced by lens focal length (1.5 times when DX format is selected)Picture Angle
SLR-type with fixed eye-level pentaprismViewfinder
Approx. 95%Viewfinder Frame Coverage
-3 to +1m-1Viewfinder Diopter Adjustment
18mmViewfinder Eyepoint
Quick-return typeReflex Mirror
No
Type B BriteView Clear Matte VI screen with superimposed AF points Interchangeable Focusing Screens
Approx. 0.72x (50mm f/1.4 lens at infinity)Viewfinder Magnification
Instant-return type with depth-of-field preview buttonLens Aperture
YesDepth-of-field Control
Autofocus TTL phase detection, 51 focus points
(15 cross-type sensors) by Nikon Multi-CAM 3500FX autofocus module; Detection: -1 to +19 EV (ISO 100 at 20°C/68°F); AF fine adjustment possible. AF-assist illuminator (range approx. 1.6-9.8 ft./0.5-3.0m)
Autofocus System
51Maximum Autofocus Areas/Points
Yes
Records values for up to 12 user selected lensesAutofocus Fine Tune
Single-servo AF (S)
Continuous-servo (C)
Manual
Auto
Manual (M) with electronic rangefinderFocus Modes
YesSingle-point AF Mode
Yes
Number of AF points: 9, 21, 51 and 51 with 3D-trackingDynamic AF Mode
YesAuto-area AF Mode
AE-L/AF-L button
Half press of shutter-release button (single-point AF in AF-S)Focus Lock
Standard
Neutral
Vivid
Monochrome
Nine User-customizable settingsPicture Control
Trim
D-Lighting
Color Balance
Image Overlay
Filter Effects
Monochrome
Red-eye correction In-Camera Image Editing
Yes
Manual pop-up typeBuilt-in Flash
YesExternal Flash Shoe
Standard ISO 518 hot-shoe contact with safety lockExternal Flash Shoe Type
YesDust-Off Reference Photo
Yes
Also visible in LiveView ModesVirtual Horizon Camera Indicator
YesSave/Load Camera settings
Yes
Built-in Commander Mode 2 Groups: A and B Nikon Creative Lighting System Compatibility
up to 1/250Flash Sync Speed
up to 1/250X-Sync Speed
up to 1/8000FP High Speed Sync
Front-curtain sync (normal)
Slow sync
Rear-curtain sync
Red-eye reduction
Red-eye reduction with slow syncFlash Sync Modes
1) TTL flash control with 1,005-pixel RGB sensor; i-TTL balanced fill-flash and standard i-TTL fill-flash available with SB-900, SB-800, SB-600 or SB-400
2) Auto aperture (AA): Available with SB-900, SB-800 and CPU lens
3) Non-TTL auto (A): Available with SB-900, SB-800, 28, 27 or 22s
4) Range-priority manual (GN): Available with SB-900, SB-800Flash Control
YesFlash Sync Terminal
YesAccessory Shoe
Electronically controlled timer with duration of 2, 5, 10 or 20 sec.Self-timer
YesWorld Time Setting
YesDate, Time and Daylight Savings Time Settings
RechargeableBattery Type
EN-EL3e Lithium-ion BatteryBattery / Batteries
EH-5a AC AdapterAC Adaptor
MH-18a Quick ChargerBattery Charger
YesImage Comment
NoVoice Memo Function
1000 shots (CIPA)
Battery Life (shots per charge)
¼-20Tripod Socket
Width 5.8 in. (147mm)
Height 4.8 in. (123mm)
Depth 3.0 in. (77mm)
Approx. Dimensions
35 oz. (995g)Approx. Weight
Chinese (Simplified and Traditional), Dutch, English, Finnish, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, SwedishSupported Languages
MB-D10 Mulit-power Battery Pack, WT-4a Wireless Transmitter, DK-17M Magnifying Eyepiece, EH-5a AC Adapter, Capture NX 2 Software, Camera Control Pro 2 Software, Image Authentication SoftwareOptional Accessories
EN-EL3e Rechargeable Li-ion Battery, MH-18a Quick Charger, UC-E4 USB Cable, EG-D100 Video Cable, AN-D700 Camera Strap, BF-1A Body Cap, BS-1 Accessory Shoe Cover, BM-9 LCD Monitor Cover, Software Suite CD-ROM
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
463
Location
new jersey
this is the camera Ive been waiting for! I never bought the grip for my d200, dont need it. Full frame, durable body, perfect size. The only thing that stopped me from getting the d3 besides the price is the size and weight of it.
 
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
500
D700 is perfect for most of us. 12 MP is more than enough for me. Having 14 or 16 MP wouldn't change anything. That would barely give you any more cropping room or resolution. 3k + 250 for the grip + 30 for a set of eneloops and a charger. That's hardly a few hundred of the D3. And saying no one will get the d700 without the grip is a ridiculous egocentric fallacy. Just because YOU would get the grip with the camera doesn't mean everyone else would too.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
6,091
Location
Alberta
Choice is a good thing. The D3 is a big camera. Which is okay for me, Im a big guy, but not everyone wants or needs 8fps. As far as the 95% veiwfinder one of my favorite Nikon's was(still is) a FM2 and I think it has 95% veiwfinder or maby 97% so for me thats no big deal. As long as the veiwfinder lets me manually focus my Nikkor AIS glass, than Im good.
By the way I took the time to read the online brochure. There where some really nice photo's and some good info. I really hope nikon releases a printed version like they did in the old days. I really miss them.
Personally I really think this is a good step for Nikon. When they come out with a D600 ? that is full frame 24-36(FX) and a thousand bucks cheaper. I'll get a couple for my kids.
As it is my hard drive is full so Im off tomorrow to get more ram.
So A 24 Mp camera's sounds good, but do I really need it?
My D3 clicking at CS eats more than Gigs enough for this cowboy.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
1,590
Location
Sacramento, Ca
I would much rather have the D700 over the D3. I do not want the battery grip , the extra weight , or the extra price. The D700 is just what many people are waiting for. The Fuji S5 is not a good comparison. Nikon you have a choice of models , where Fuji you did not.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
239
Location
NJ
You're crazy. This is the perfect complement to the D300 for me. Clean ISO 3600 in a compact body? Yes please!
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
1,590
Location
Sacramento, Ca
So what are the major differences between the D3 and the D700?
Well the big difference for me is that it is smaller , less weight , and cheaper.
But of course if you need the grip , than it probably won't be any smaller or lighter or much cheaper. I do not need or want the grip , and I'm sure there is many others that feel the same way.
 

AFS

Joined
May 1, 2005
Messages
3,001
Location
Minnesota (formerly Florida)
To offer a sensor that is the same after a camera has been out using that sensor for 18 months is foolish in today's fast paced technology marketplace. If this offering would have been 14 or 16 or 18MP, then it would grab some headlines.

I think this effort to make another D3 in a smaller D300 body with the same old sensor is an error in judgment. And the viewfinder is only 95%!
Okay, Gary, I'm used to you being a little more logical, you need to rethink it.
1) the sensor has been out for less than a year. Just shy of 8 months in the hands of users.
2) The same sensor is reused constantly in almost any brand. In nikon's case... do you think the D70 was an error in judgement? It was a D100 in a slightly smaller body with the same old sensor.
That same old sensor then went into the D50 and now D40, and it keeps getting better and cheaper with each generation. That sensor is 6 years old!
Do you think the D40x/D60 are errors in judgement? There's a solid 3 year old sensor. D200 used it first, then the slower version in the D80 about 9 months later, then in the D40x/60 in 2007 and 2008.
Do you like the D300? It's no coincidence it's a Sony CMOS at 4288x2848 pixels. So was the D2x. It's just an evolution of that same sensor with improved electronics getting significantly better image quality.
3) that 95% viewfinder is more than plenty for most people. I like 100% VFs to be sure, but they aren't always perfectly aligned to be honest. That alignment and higher tolerance costs money to implement. I'd rather the price point not be even $200 higher to accommodate a 100% VF.
 
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