D70s - Fill Flash - Hats off to Bob and Kent! Problem Solved

Well, I am baffled and confused - What is new?

Here is the deal.

I went down to our little dance halle to take some pics of the band. I used aperture priority, ttl mode and spot metering, min flash sync at 1/60, and pop the flash up for fill flash using front curtain sync.

It is a dance halle so it is lit but not real well and needed a little boost. I went to take a pic and the flash would not fire. Instead I got this horribly long shutter speed - 30 seconds or so -seemed like it anyway. I did this repeatedly and still no flash and very long shutter speed. So, obviously I am not understanding how to use fill flash on D70s correctly.

I then switch to manual mode flash and same thing. Hmmmm. I then tried to increase f-stop and still the same thing-I kind of expected that. My reasoning was decrease the light and surely flash will fire now and I was freaking out as I was missing the shots I wanted to take. No flash, long very long shutter speed. I then went the other way with the f-stop and opened it up as much as possible. Meter still said "low". ok. But shouldn't the flash at least fire and shutter speed at the minimum which I had set at 1/60s. So I am a flash dummy right now and my logic does not sync up with the camera logic at all.

On my other digital camera Olympus 2100 (5 years old now). When I wanted to use fill flash I would set the flash mode from automatic to force mode I guess you call it. And flash would fire for every shot.

So my real question here is - What is the proper setup so that I know the flash is going to fire? Even if the pic is going to be underexposed wouldn't the flash still fire?

I really do not understand this and I know someone out there can get me on the right track.

I am bummed out cause the best part of the show that I wanted to shoot and I did not get at all.

 

Ok - I will post a few pics that illustrate what I am asking. Give me a few minutes....

ok here is a sample pic:

NIKON D70s    ---    28mm    f/4.5    1/4s   

And Exif Data:
Camera: Nikon D70s
Exposure: 0.25 sec (1/4) Why???? Shouldn't have been 1/60 s?
Aperture: f/4.5
Focal Length: 28 mm
Exposure Bias: 1 EV
ISO Speed: 1600

Orientation: Normal
X-Resolution: 300 dpi
Y-Resolution: 300 dpi
Software: Nikon Capture Editor 4.3.0 W
Date and Time: 2005:07:10 02:09:52
YCbCr Positioning: Centered
Exposure Program: Aperture priority
Date and Time (Original): 2005:07:10 00:08:23
Date and Time (Digitized): 2005:07:10 00:08:23
Maximum Lens Aperture: 38/10
Metering Mode: Spot
Light Source: Flash
User Comment: Copyright 2005 PhotoByMark
Sub-Second Time: 90
Sub-Second Time (Original): 90
Sub-Second Time (Digitized): 90
Color Space: sRGB
Sensing Method: One-chip colour area sensor
CFA Pattern: BLUE GREEN GREEN RED
Compression: JPEG
Quality: RAW
White Balance: FLASH
Sharpening: MED.H
Focus Mode: AF-S
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x0011: 5002
ISO Speed Requested: 200 (May be different to Speed Used when Auto ISO is on)
AE Bracket Compensation Applied: 0/1
Tone Compensation (Contrast): CS
Lens Type: 14
Lens Min/Max Focal Length, Min/Max Aperture: 24/1, 120/1, 35/10, 56/10
Bracketing & Shooting Mode: Shooting Mode: Single Frame AE/Flash Bracketing Off White Balance Bracketing Off
Colour Mode: MODE2
Lighting Type: NATURAL
Hue Adjustment: 3
Noise Reduction: OFF
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x0099: 1520, 1008
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x009A: 78/10, 78/10
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x00A0: NO= 100423d2
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x00A2: 680158
Total Number of Shutter Releases for Camera: 2002
Image optimisation: CUSTOM
Saturation: NORMAL
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x0E08: 1
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x0E09: Nikon Capture Editor 4.3.0 W
Tag::Nikon Type 3::0x0E10: 5096
Image Width: 3008 pixels
Image Length: 2000 pixels

 

Thanks for the response.

If I get an SB800 (which is on my list to get) is there a way to force it to fire? That is, I am relying on it to fire. The pics I did get when the flash fired came out decent. Some pics the flash fired others didn't.

I searched for hours late last night trying to get a clue and understand however, I really did not find the answers I am looking for.

So anyone know of a book on iTTL and flash logic? Off to Amazon I go.

In my haste last night I ordered Thom's Ebook. Thinking there maybe something in there about flash. There is another Ebook that is suppose to real good. Cannot remember the author's name. So I guess I will find that out too....

I have got a lot to learn about flash and how/why it works.

I am concerned because when I need fill-flash but cannot get it to fire I am going to loose lots of those picture moments. :?

 

Thanks John.

BTW-I understand what you are saying in your first post. That is sort of what happens, low ambient light, Meter even indicates "Low" in viewfinder.

Even so, why would camera think it is better to go set shutter speed at 10-20 seconds and not fire the flash rather than at least fire the flash and fire shutter and slowest min flash sync speed that is configured in the custom settings?

Let me think out loud. Camera says at this aperture, even with flash this pic is gonna come out way underexposed. So camera thinks it is better to not fire flash and go with a really long shutter speed to get correct exposure. My brain says, at this aperture, even with flash if pic is underexposed with min flash sync take pic at the aperature, min flash sync speed and fire the flash anyway. So I know I loose cause camera does not care what I think. :?

Sorry I am so dense on this one. Trying to learn and understand.

 

Front Curtain Sync, iTTL mode.

It is really wierd it did the same thing last time I took pics at that place.

Now, I am sitting in my office flash fires all days long. Turn off light to make very dark. Flash fires. There is lots of red stage lights I wonder if this throws the meter off?

Glenn - I will go ahead and reset I suppose. Can't hurt.

 

Bob - Now that is very interesting. I was wearing a hat. Hmmm. I will experiment with that.

 

Ken - Ok. Please tell me more.

Which mode should I use to guarantee fill-flash will fire? "P" perhaps?

Thanks.

 

All good responses. I have at least some things to experiment with.

I thought I had turned off Auto ISO? Hmm I will go look. I did in a frantic start changing all sorts of parameters and that really did not help the situation at all.

I think you are right spot metering is probably not a good choice either.

I am curious about Ken's comment on Aperture Priority? Ken can you add some more to this about Aperture Priority and Fill Flash?

Thanks for all the responses.

 

Thanks for responding ken.

I would like to try the things you mention but, right now the only flash I have is the onboard flash.