Do you think Nikon has a chance to go under?

Nikon came a little late to the mirrorless market, as has Canon.....and this is what has allowed Sony to seize such a strong position in the mirrorless field right now. People are going to be attracted to what ever it is they feel they need or want and they will gravitate towards the source which can provide it. If one manufacturer has the goods already out there and functioning well, and the product is what potential buyers are seeking and will pay for, that is what is likely to start a shift in the customer base from one company's products to another's. If Company X offers a good range of choices in mirrorless bodies and lenses and Company Q is just starting to release bodies and lenses with a "roadmap" of lenses to come but not yet available, isn't it likely that more potential customers are going to head over to Company X?
 
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Connie, well put. I was a full blooded nikon user for 40 years. I stuck with them when early in digital, they lagged behind canon in high iso sensors. I stuck with them through thick and thin.
But I needed/wanted to move to mirrorless for medical reasons- and my thought process was correct. For me mirrorless was better for helping me work through my vision loss.
Nikon did not have what I needed, and had not laid out a roadmap on how and when they were going to get there. Another company did have what I wanted.
I now shoot Sony.
I think they fumbled this big time. They are not out of the big game, they have time to get it together.
I hope they do.
Gary
 
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Nikon isn't going under. Japanese business is very different. They're part of the Mitsubishi Zaibatsu.

I think we might see a jump in photography and other media driven industries post pandemic. For example telecommunications is booming right, people need to stay connected while in isolation. There's a starved demand for new content and media. Also if it ends up being a global depression, people tend to gravitate towards media to forget about their problems. If I was a camera company right now, I'd be developing gear made specifically for small productions, seamless internet connectivity, conferencing app compatibility and swivel LCDs for content creators.
 
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Although Canon and Sony are more diverse, I think Nikon will weather this storm well. Not only do the financials look pretty solid, but they do have other businesses as well ... optics for medical usage, scopes, eyeglasses, etc. Not as huge as other the companies, but there is some diversity to help them on a long term basis.

I think the larger question may be why are any of the camera companies still trying to compete in the P&S market? Frankly I no longer see any utility in carrying a P&S camera vs my iPhone. But, the iPhone can't compete with my DSLR either. If I were running any of these camera companies I'd sure as heck stop spending any R&D or Marketing money on P&S cameras, and concentrate my resources on improving my mirrorless/DSLR offerings to keep a solid foothold in the upper end of the market.

Ken
 
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What if Nikon became a more boutique brand like Leica in 10 years or so? Leica has been sold a couple of times and still manages. If Nikon were truly one of the 4-5 majors to succumb, maybe reinventing themselves as a Leica competitor would work. I hope they just continue on as-is and grow their market share, just offered this as fodder.
 
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Nikon came a little late to the mirrorless market, as has Canon.....and this is what has allowed Sony to seize such a strong position in the mirrorless field right now. People are going to be attracted to what ever it is they feel they need or want and they will gravitate towards the source which can provide it. If one manufacturer has the goods already out there and functioning well, and the product is what potential buyers are seeking and will pay for, that is what is likely to start a shift in the customer base from one company's products to another's. If Company X offers a good range of choices in mirrorless bodies and lenses and Company Q is just starting to release bodies and lenses with a "roadmap" of lenses to come but not yet available, isn't it likely that more potential customers are going to head over to Company X?
I agree to some extent Connie, but OTOH, as someone who has just bought into an FF mirrorless camera system I could have chosen any of the big four (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic) since I had no legacy lens library to worry about. I chose Nikon, even though their native Z lens line is still thin. These are my reasons:

Sony - I've tried more than once to like Sony cameras, but their handling is still not right. The grip is wrong and the UI/menu system is overall a bit of a mess. Then the lens range is quixotic - some good stuff, but some real dogs too (e.g. the 24-70 f4). In addition, the mount is borderline too small and I'm not at all convinced by their build quality.

Canon - Their sensor tech still lags the others IMHO and the handling on the EOS R is pretty awful too (e.g. the silly little left/right rocker). Maybe the new R5/R6 will improve in these areas, but it's too early to tell. And while the R lenses look great, they are mostly big money. In any case, I've used Canon DSLRs before and sort of grew out of them as a brand.

Panasonic - Way, way too big and heavy in my view. Didn't like them at all.

Nikon - I really just gelled with the bodies. Great size, weight, and handling. Lens line up was enough to cover my desires/needs in the short term (I have 14-30 and 24-70 now and am planning to add the 24-200 soon). I also have enormous respect for the Nikon brand and heritage.

So, there you have it. You can't please all the people all the time and I don't believe that Nikon are significantly behind any of the others when looked at in the wider context.
 
I agree to some extent Connie, but OTOH, as someone who has just bought into an FF mirrorless camera system I could have chosen any of the big four (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic) since I had no legacy lens library to worry about. I chose Nikon, even though their native Z lens line is still thin. These are my reasons:

Sony - I've tried more than once to like Sony cameras, but their handling is still not right. The grip is wrong and the UI/menu system is overall a bit of a mess. Then the lens range is quixotic - some good stuff, but some real dogs too (e.g. the 24-70 f4). In addition, the mount is borderline too small and I'm not at all convinced by their build quality.

Canon - Their sensor tech still lags the others IMHO and the handling on the EOS R is pretty awful too (e.g. the silly little left/right rocker). Maybe the new R5/R6 will improve in these areas, but it's too early to tell. And while the R lenses look great, they are mostly big money. In any case, I've used Canon DSLRs before and sort of grew out of them as a brand.

Panasonic - Way, way too big and heavy in my view. Didn't like them at all.

Nikon - I really just gelled with the bodies. Great size, weight, and handling. Lens line up was enough to cover my desires/needs in the short term (I have 14-30 and 24-70 now and am planning to add the 24-200 soon). I also have enormous respect for the Nikon brand and heritage.

So, there you have it. You can't please all the people all the time and I don't believe that Nikon are significantly behind any of the others when looked at in the wider context.
Years and years ago when I first picked up a Nikon SLR, I thought, "oh, yes, this is IT!" and the first time I held the Nikon D70 I felt like I was "coming home" after having used a bunch of Coolpixes for a while. I always felt that way through the many Nikon bodies I had. They're really comfortable to hold, have all the buttons and dials and such in the right places..... I only held a Canon a couple of times and neither time did it feel 'right' to me in the way that a Nikon body did, so I can definitely relate to what you are saying!

However..... and for me this was a big "however....." One thing which makes a difference, as I had mentioned in my post, is what the consumer wants, and if it is or is not on offer by a given merchant at the time the consumer is ready to buy. What we like or want to shoot, too, is rather important. Some people like to shoot landscape, others are into portraits, while still others head towards their subject as close-in as they can get via a macro lens. In my case I had been using Nikon for many years and indeed had a fine collection of Nikon lenses including several macro lenses, had used various Nikon bodies and other lenses over a long period of time.... Unfortunately for Nikon, when I was starting to think about making a change in my photography -- i.e., switching from DSLR to mirrorless, at the time there was nothing yet on offer from Nikon at all. There were rumors, though..... I waited patiently through the period when Nikon first introduced its new mirrorless bodies, lenses and FTZ adapter, and was extremely disappointed to see that there was no macro lens anywhere in sight, no macro lens even mentioned on their "road map" at that time. I don't like using adapters with my lenses and I was well aware that many of my older legacy lenses would suddenly become manual-focus-only, which due to my aging eyesight was not exactly desirable. The small selection of native lenses offered at the very beginning really wasn't going to work for me. I wanted and expected to have a native lens. I am really glad to see that since then Nikon has been bringing out new native lenses for their users and that's a very good thing! I'm also glad that I am not still waiting around for that native macro lens to actually arrive, too, though. Yeah, I know it's more of a specialty lens and Nikon wants to get other lenses into the hands of their users and prospective customers as soon as possible.....

I've never tried actually shooting with Canon or Pentax, so can't speak to them, but I had already had some experience with Sony -- the NEX-7 which came out some years ago, plus the compact RX100 series and the "bridge" superzoom RX10 M4, so it was natural that I would look to see what Sony was doing and what they had to offer in FF bodies, but more importantly, in their current line of mirrorless lenses for their mirrorless bodies. They had what I was most interested in: a couple of native macro lenses, some native fast lenses and a couple of native long zooms..... All available right right then. Hm...... I already knew from my previous experience with Sony that I liked their lenses and their cameras. Different from Nikon? Yes, but also quite comfortable and functional for me. I agree, that menu system is a bear but by the time in mid-2019 I'd bought my RX100 VII I had pretty much gotten a handle on it and its idiosyncrasies. For me it was a no-brainer to check out the A7R IV body, which came out while I was mulling over the A7R III. One day in November 2019 the decision was made and I traded in all of my Nikon gear plus that NEX-7 and its lenses and bought the A7R IV and three lenses, two of which were macro. Since then as the budget has permitted, I've added a few more lenses. I'm pleased with my choices and for me this was the right decision for my own particular reasons. Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them.......

So how does this fit into the overall discussion of Nikon's future? Well, how many other people are out there who have also jumped ship from Nikon to Sony for their own reasons? It seems to me that I see quite a few posts in various places from those who were Nikon users but who are now into Sony......I would guess that one way or another this would affect both companies' bottom financial line.......
 

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Years and years ago when I first picked up a Nikon SLR, I thought, "oh, yes, this is IT!" and the first time I held the Nikon D70 I felt like I was "coming home" after having used a bunch of Coolpixes for a while. I always felt that way through the many Nikon bodies I had. They're really comfortable to hold, have all the buttons and dials and such in the right places..... I only held a Canon a couple of times and neither time did it feel 'right' to me in the way that a Nikon body did, so I can definitely relate to what you are saying!

However..... and for me this was a big "however....." One thing which makes a difference, as I had mentioned in my post, is what the consumer wants, and if it is or is not on offer by a given merchant at the time the consumer is ready to buy. What we like or want to shoot, too, is rather important. Some people like to shoot landscape, others are into portraits, while still others head towards their subject as close-in as they can get via a macro lens. In my case I had been using Nikon for many years and indeed had a fine collection of Nikon lenses including several macro lenses, had used various Nikon bodies and other lenses over a long period of time.... Unfortunately for Nikon, when I was starting to think about making a change in my photography -- i.e., switching from DSLR to mirrorless, at the time there was nothing yet on offer from Nikon at all. There were rumors, though..... I waited patiently through the period when Nikon first introduced its new mirrorless bodies, lenses and FTZ adapter, and was extremely disappointed to see that there was no macro lens anywhere in sight, no macro lens even mentioned on their "road map" at that time. I don't like using adapters with my lenses and I was well aware that many of my older legacy lenses would suddenly become manual-focus-only, which due to my aging eyesight was not exactly desirable. The small selection of native lenses offered at the very beginning really wasn't going to work for me. I wanted and expected to have a native lens. I am really glad to see that since then Nikon has been bringing out new native lenses for their users and that's a very good thing! I'm also glad that I am not still waiting around for that native macro lens to actually arrive, too, though. Yeah, I know it's more of a specialty lens and Nikon wants to get other lenses into the hands of their users and prospective customers as soon as possible.....

I've never tried actually shooting with Canon or Pentax, so can't speak to them, but I had already had some experience with Sony -- the NEX-7 which came out some years ago, plus the compact RX100 series and the "bridge" superzoom RX10 M4, so it was natural that I would look to see what Sony was doing and what they had to offer in FF bodies, but more importantly, in their current line of mirrorless lenses for their mirrorless bodies. They had what I was most interested in: a couple of native macro lenses, some native fast lenses and a couple of native long zooms..... All available right right then. Hm...... I already knew from my previous experience with Sony that I liked their lenses and their cameras. Different from Nikon? Yes, but also quite comfortable and functional for me. I agree, that menu system is a bear but by the time in mid-2019 I'd bought my RX100 VII I had pretty much gotten a handle on it and its idiosyncrasies. For me it was a no-brainer to check out the A7R IV body, which came out while I was mulling over the A7R III. One day in November 2019 the decision was made and I traded in all of my Nikon gear plus that NEX-7 and its lenses and bought the A7R IV and three lenses, two of which were macro. Since then as the budget has permitted, I've added a few more lenses. I'm pleased with my choices and for me this was the right decision for my own particular reasons. Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them.......

So how does this fit into the overall discussion of Nikon's future? Well, how many other people are out there who have also jumped ship from Nikon to Sony for their own reasons? It seems to me that I see quite a few posts in various places from those who were Nikon users but who are now into Sony......I would guess that one way or another this would affect both companies' bottom financial line.......
I'll be brief....... I recently tried using a Sony after hearing all the hype. The experience was quite eye opening - and terrifying. I hated it! The view was so obscure I could hardly focus. The UI downright scary and several owners told me that accidentally brushing a back button changed the whole focusing mode. And more......

My current gear meets all my needs and more. If Nikon's second generation mirrorless is as good as I expect, then I will start transitioning to Nikon mirrorless. If not, I cannot identify a single reason to switch - to Sony or any other brand.

Each to his own decisions..... no one needs to justify their decisions.
 
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Years and years ago when I first picked up a Nikon SLR, I thought, "oh, yes, this is IT!" and the first time I held the Nikon D70 I felt like I was "coming home" after having used a bunch of Coolpixes for a while. I always felt that way through the many Nikon bodies I had. They're really comfortable to hold, have all the buttons and dials and such in the right places..... I only held a Canon a couple of times and neither time did it feel 'right' to me in the way that a Nikon body did, so I can definitely relate to what you are saying!

However..... and for me this was a big "however....." One thing which makes a difference, as I had mentioned in my post, is what the consumer wants, and if it is or is not on offer by a given merchant at the time the consumer is ready to buy. What we like or want to shoot, too, is rather important. Some people like to shoot landscape, others are into portraits, while still others head towards their subject as close-in as they can get via a macro lens. In my case I had been using Nikon for many years and indeed had a fine collection of Nikon lenses including several macro lenses, had used various Nikon bodies and other lenses over a long period of time.... Unfortunately for Nikon, when I was starting to think about making a change in my photography -- i.e., switching from DSLR to mirrorless, at the time there was nothing yet on offer from Nikon at all. There were rumors, though..... I waited patiently through the period when Nikon first introduced its new mirrorless bodies, lenses and FTZ adapter, and was extremely disappointed to see that there was no macro lens anywhere in sight, no macro lens even mentioned on their "road map" at that time. I don't like using adapters with my lenses and I was well aware that many of my older legacy lenses would suddenly become manual-focus-only, which due to my aging eyesight was not exactly desirable. The small selection of native lenses offered at the very beginning really wasn't going to work for me. I wanted and expected to have a native lens. I am really glad to see that since then Nikon has been bringing out new native lenses for their users and that's a very good thing! I'm also glad that I am not still waiting around for that native macro lens to actually arrive, too, though. Yeah, I know it's more of a specialty lens and Nikon wants to get other lenses into the hands of their users and prospective customers as soon as possible.....

I've never tried actually shooting with Canon or Pentax, so can't speak to them, but I had already had some experience with Sony -- the NEX-7 which came out some years ago, plus the compact RX100 series and the "bridge" superzoom RX10 M4, so it was natural that I would look to see what Sony was doing and what they had to offer in FF bodies, but more importantly, in their current line of mirrorless lenses for their mirrorless bodies. They had what I was most interested in: a couple of native macro lenses, some native fast lenses and a couple of native long zooms..... All available right right then. Hm...... I already knew from my previous experience with Sony that I liked their lenses and their cameras. Different from Nikon? Yes, but also quite comfortable and functional for me. I agree, that menu system is a bear but by the time in mid-2019 I'd bought my RX100 VII I had pretty much gotten a handle on it and its idiosyncrasies. For me it was a no-brainer to check out the A7R IV body, which came out while I was mulling over the A7R III. One day in November 2019 the decision was made and I traded in all of my Nikon gear plus that NEX-7 and its lenses and bought the A7R IV and three lenses, two of which were macro. Since then as the budget has permitted, I've added a few more lenses. I'm pleased with my choices and for me this was the right decision for my own particular reasons. Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them.......

So how does this fit into the overall discussion of Nikon's future? Well, how many other people are out there who have also jumped ship from Nikon to Sony for their own reasons? It seems to me that I see quite a few posts in various places from those who were Nikon users but who are now into Sony......I would guess that one way or another this would affect both companies' bottom financial line.......
Thanks Connie - that's a good analysis. It certainly shows how we all have our own preferences and red lines. I'm not into macro shooting but I can see how the lack of a native macro lens would be a big issue for those who are. The lack of a 70-200 is probably the biggest hole right now though since it's a lens that many regard as almost essential (but I think Nikon will be filling that gap soon, even though initially it'll be the big & expensive f2.8 version).

In the interim, the FTZ is a reasonable stop-gap for those with existing F mount glass. However, I agree that adapters are a messy compromise and I'm trying not to go that route if I can possibly avoid it (I've even got a native (MF) fisheye on order).

Of course Sony stole the lead on everyone else in mirrorless FF and I'm amazed really just how slowly the other guys reacted. They gave Sony a 3-4 year lead, which is significant - and of course it explains the relatively full lens eco-system they have today compared to their competitors. However, I'm confident that Nikon will catch up and in the meantime there's nothing that I'm especially craving (well, apart from a native, AF fisheye!).
 
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It's easy to determine whether Nikon has lost market share. (I've never done it because I really don't care whether it has.) Even if Nikon has lost market share, that doesn't mean they're going to go under. Lots of companies lose market share without going out of business. That is the topic of the thread -- the likelihood that Nikon will go out of business. There aren't very many posts in the thread even trying to address that. That indicates to me that at least to the readers of this thread, the likelihood seems extremely small.
 
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  • #34
That is the topic of the thread -- the likelihood that Nikon will go out of business. There aren't very many posts in the thread even trying to address that. That indicates to me that at least to the readers of this thread, the likelihood seems extremely small.
I feel rather buoyed by the majority of responses. Hopefully everyone is right in their gut feelings that Nikon will survive.
 
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  • #35
In the interim, the FTZ is a reasonable stop-gap for those with existing F mount glass. However, I agree that adapters are a messy compromise and I'm trying not to go that route if I can possibly avoid it (I've even got a native (MF) fisheye on order).
I use a D850 and Z7 and to be 100% honest I have forgotten all about the FTZ even being there when using F mount glass, its that seamless to me.
 
I'll be brief....... I recently tried using a Sony after hearing all the hype. The experience was quite eye opening - and terrifying. I hated it! The view was so obscure I could hardly focus. The UI downright scary and several owners told me that accidentally brushing a back button changed the whole focusing mode. And more......

My current gear meets all my needs and more. If Nikon's second generation mirrorless is as good as I expect, then I will start transitioning to Nikon mirrorless. If not, I cannot identify a single reason to switch - to Sony or any other brand.

Each to his own decisions..... no one needs to justify their decisions.
I remember the first time I looked through an electronic viewfinder (EVF) -- right here in my own living room as Rich Gibson handed me his brand-new Sony NEX-7. He murmured something about "electronic viewfinder," but I didn't pay much attention, didn't realize that he was trying to warn me that it was going to be different, until I held the thing to my eyes and looked through the EVF at....uh....WTH was I seeing?? Supposed to be seeing? It didn't help matters, of course, that we were in my dim living room, indoors, rather than outside. Confused, I said, "hey, what's with this viewfinder?!" He laughed and explained that EVFs include the scene exposed exactly as it is at the moment, plus of course any additional information that the user wants included (the whole lot can be overwhelming and clutter up the view, though), and as well just as any other VF, can be adjusted to the user's own diopter needs. Obviously I wasn't going to mess with his settings and screw anything up. He did show me what to do in order to change the exposure values so that I could get a sense of how the EVF shows the actual lighting situation and other information, which made sense to me then. Oh, now THAT was cool, I decided. It really wasn't until I eventually had my own NEX-7 with its own EVF that I was able to adjust to my own particular needs and wishes that I truly began to appreciate the full value of that EVF and other features.

I have no idea of what you're talking about when you say that "accidentally brushing a back button changed the whole focusing mode." HUH?

Picking up and handling someone else's camera, whether it is a Sony or a Nikon or a Leica, really is not exactly a fair way to assess that brand or model, inasmuch as it will have been set up for the owner's/user's specific purposes and needs, rather than for a casual look by a friend or fellow photographer.

Actually, having used EVFs now for a while, I cannot imagine ever going back to an optical VF. No thanks! Since all the mirrorless cameras now have EVF, anyone who buys one, whether it's a Nikon or a Sony or a Canon, is gonna have to get used to it.....
 
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...................I have no idea of what you're talking about when you say that "accidentally brushing a back button changed the whole focusing mode."

......................
Those were not my comments, simply responses I received by Sony users when I asked what they liked and didn't like about the top end Sonys................
 
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Sony is my choice right now for mirrorless mainly due to diverse third-party lens selection, excellent battery life with 3rd gen and up bodies, ability to use an external power pack through USB Type-C, best implementation of focus peaking for manual lenses and in general not skimping on accessory features such as dual card slot, plus vertical battery grip.

Saying that, I'm not really a fan of their GM primes and zooms (I prefer Nikkors first party glass for rendering and colors); build and ergonomics aren't top-notch (Nikon Z bodies feel more premium), Sony warranty is only 1 year (versus USA warranties - Nikon 5 years, Tamron 6 years and Sigma 4 years); they outsource repairs to a third party; metering/auto ISO isn't as good as Nikon and lastly their flash system feels like an after thought.

Nikon's DSLR eco system feels incredibly mature, but Nikon's latest bean counter saving measures has made me pause and even downsized my Nikon DSLR kit, while shooting with Sony mirrorless. I've been thinking of swinging one way or the other, but I feel I lose features going either way! I get the both of best worlds shooting with two systems!

FYI - My 5 Samyang AF primes cost as much as either 1 premium Sony GM or Nikon S prime/zoom lens! Plus I have the benefit of being able to focus tune the lenses using the Samyang USB dock which can be tuned for optimal sharpness. Also the Tamron 28-200mm f/2.8-5.6 FE lens I'm shooting with is perhaps is one of the best super zooms I've shot with. I'd gladly give up a wide 24mm, to have a fast 28mm 2.8!
 
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