DX heresy....

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The D300 is an incredible camera in nearly all aspects. The fact that it's somewhat aged and still holds its own against other manufacturer's newer offerings certainly pays tribute to the extraordinary engineering and feature set of the D300.

That said .... I still like the ol' D200 better :eek:

The D300 does everything better on paper and generally in the field, as well. But I still find the D200 an easier body to walk around with and just shoot. I do less processing and I almost always prefer the D200 files to the D300 files. I don't know if its the more muted film-like (I hate using that comparison) rendition or what but I know what my eyes see and what I prefer.

I like the metering of the D200 better, just seems so consistent and predictable be it matrix or center weighted. Apparently my visual cortex is more aligned to the algorithms of the D200 than those found in the D300.

I've used both bodies extensively now over the last couple years so I have a pretty good archive with which to compare from. I'm not a pro or an event shooter and I actually make most of my photographs in the light so ISO 800 is not a big restriction for me.

I guess I see the two cameras as being different flavours as opposed to one being 'better' than the other. We all have different tastes thus one should choose the flavour they like best.

It's important to keep this post in the proper context.... I'm simply an amateur and do not have the critical eye of a highly skilled shooter or pro shooter. The differences in the files of the two cameras may simply be beyond my ken. Perhaps the D300 is just more camera than I am able to master or utilise fully and this is why I like the D200 as much as I do.

Hard to say but there it is!
 
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I can give you another 200 in trade if you want. Depending on the condition of your 300 I might trade 3 200s for it. GH
 
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LOL! I've a couple D200 bodies now so no more needed.

And I really have to keep a D300 around just for its incredible AF ability. I shoot a few of working dog events each year for charity and the D300 is definitely superior in this area.
 
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The D300 is an incredible camera in nearly all aspects. The fact that it's somewhat aged and still holds its own against other manufacturer's newer offerings certainly pays tribute to the extraordinary engineering and feature set of the D300.

That said .... I still like the ol' D200 better :eek:

The D300 does everything better on paper and generally in the field, as well. But I still find the D200 an easier body to walk around with and just shoot. I do less processing and I almost always prefer the D200 files to the D300 files. I don't know if its the more muted film-like (I hate using that comparison) rendition or what but I know what my eyes see and what I prefer.

I like the metering of the D200 better, just seems so consistent and predictable be it matrix or center weighted. Apparently my visual cortex is more aligned to the algorithms of the D200 than those found in the D300.

I've used both bodies extensively now over the last couple years so I have a pretty good archive with which to compare from. I'm not a pro or an event shooter and I actually make most of my photographs in the light so ISO 800 is not a big restriction for me.

I guess I see the two cameras as being different flavours as opposed to one being 'better' than the other. We all have different tastes thus one should choose the flavour they like best.

It's important to keep this post in the proper context.... I'm simply an amateur and do not have the critical eye of a highly skilled shooter or pro shooter. The differences in the files of the two cameras may simply be beyond my ken. Perhaps the D300 is just more camera than I am able to master or utilise fully and this is why I like the D200 as much as I do.

Hard to say but there it is!
Well, yes, in may ways I won't disagree. I have no complaints, overall, over the images that I obtained from my D200 up to about two months ago.
Except that, I had challenges after 9:00PM and I wanted to get some shots of my son playing baseball...And the AF, the AF made it a bit easier to get that 'shot'. Originally, the only wants for me, were the D2X AF and FPS. The D300 ISO was a wonderful bonus. And I have some pictures of my son that I could not have obtained with my D200 (at least of the same quality).

I don't think that that D300 is more than you can master or utilise, or the difference in the file is beyond your ken. Some of the time, I think some of the features can make a difference for some of us.

I liked (was used to?) the D200 files. I never had an issue with them, understanding what my/the limits were. I would use a D200 again without any question for what I shoot.

I do about the same amount of processing on each file, although I haven't quite got the confidence of the D300 metering system as I did on the D200. Part of that is me understanding the nuances of the camera...
 
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I find the metering in the D3 much too sensitive to colors. I find the D2x metering more predictable. Specially with flash. I guess this is the same with the D300 & D200.
But the improvement in AF and the versatility of the files of the D3 makes it a much more versatile camera than the D2x. No question about it.
 
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I really like my D200. :smile:

Yes, the one thing I'd really like to have from the D300 is the AF system!! Played with a co-worker's D300 and that thing is just plain nuts! I want it for my wife. It's way too confusing to ask her to work the different AF modes or to manually select different AF sensors or groups. With a 300 I'd just leave it on the center sensor, put it in 3D tracking mode, and then tell her to focus on what she wants in focus and then recompose and let the 3D mode track. Super sweet!

If there's some killer closeout deal on D300 non-s models down the road I might have to go for it, but for now I'm perfectly pleased with my D200.
 
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I'm with you Holmes, I never liked the D300 either when shooting side by side with a D200.

Looking at the current trend it seems to me that camera manufacturers have already stopped developing pro-caliber DX cameras about 2-3 years ago. The D300 handling and focusing are not up to the D2Xs level, the Canon 40D and 50D are no match for the older 1D Mark II or 1D Mark III. I will bet my NikonCafe hat that the 1D Mark IV will not be 1.3x crop but a full frame camera instead to compete with the D3. Sony is a relative newcomer, but the only pro-caliber camera in their lineup is the Alpha900. Olympus cameras are small and cute, but the P&S quality noise performance and lack of dynamic range and primitive AF do not deliver enough IQ, despite the high quality glass and 2x crop factor.

If the camera manufacturers did really see this gaping hole in their lineups as something important, I'm sure someone would already have pushed out the ideal pro-level crop sensor camera, the "D3H" or the "EOS 1D Mark III N". No such things in 3 years must only mean the demise of pro-grade DX.

Any takers? My hat is here. :biggrin:
 
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I'm with you Holmes, I never liked the D300 either when shooting side by side with a D200.

Looking at the current trend it seems to me that camera manufacturers have already stopped developing pro-caliber DX cameras about 2-3 years ago. The D300 handling and focusing are not up to the D2Xs level, the Canon 40D and 50D are no match for the older 1D Mark II or 1D Mark III. I will bet my NikonCafe hat that the 1D Mark IV will not be 1.3x crop but a full frame camera instead to compete with the D3.

Um what?
Why would canon remove their 1.3 crop line, when their 1Ds line is FF competitor?
Canon will still continue with the 1D MK IV and the 1Ds MK IV. Aslo, Why would you expect the 40D and 50D to be in the same league as the 1D MKII or MKIII? they're in completely different ball games.
 
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Um what?
Why would canon remove their 1.3 crop line, when their 1Ds line is FF competitor?
Canon will still continue with the 1D MK IV and the 1Ds MK IV.
The target market for 1Ds line is not photojournalism and sports.

Guesswork: 1Ds Mk IV will be a 30 Mpix super-fine quality studio/landscape camera and 1D Mk IV will be a superfast 15 fps high-ISO beast with something modest like 16-18 Mpix full frame, to directly compete with D3.

Wanna take my bet on the NikonCafe hat about the full frame or 1.3x crop of the 1D Mk IV? :cool:


Aslo, Why would you expect the 40D and 50D to be in the same league as the 1D MKII or MKIII? they're in completely different ball games.
Yes, exactly my point. That's what my post was all about. All new crop cameras are nowadays a different ball game, they are consumer cameras. The last pro-level crop cameras were D2Xs and 1D Mk III.
 
D

dwind

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I prefer my d200 to either the d700 or d300 in normal photography.
The lines are sharper and the colors more vivid.
Dennis
 
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I really like my D200. :smile:

Yes, the one thing I'd really like to have from the D300 is the AF system!!

If there's some killer closeout deal on D300 non-s models down the road I might have to go for it, but for now I'm perfectly pleased with my D200.
I've had zero problems with my 200's but as you say the AF system on the 300 is amazing and the main reason if there's any deals on the "plain ol" D300 I'll be selling my 200's to get a pair of 300's.
 
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The target market for 1Ds line is not photojournalism and sports.

Guesswork: 1Ds Mk IV will be a 30 Mpix super-fine quality studio/landscape camera and 1D Mk IV will be a superfast 15 fps high-ISO beast with something modest like 16-18 Mpix full frame, to directly compete with D3.

Wanna take my bet on the NikonCafe hat about the full frame or 1.3x crop of the 1D Mk IV? :cool:
I'll Gladly take that bet. Canon will not stray from the way they've set up their 1D and 1Ds lines.


Yes, exactly my point. That's what my post was all about. All new crop cameras are nowadays a different ball game, they are consumer cameras. The last pro-level crop cameras were D2Xs and 1D Mk III.
But you've missed my point.
The 1D MKiii and 40D were released a few months apart, and they're aimed for completely different markets. They don't even share many of the same features. The XXD line isn't targeted for pros, it was aimed at the advanced amature, so I don't even know why the XXD line is even being brought up in a pro-level body discussion.
 
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I'll Gladly take that bet. Canon will not stray from the way they've set up their 1D and 1Ds lines.
Now I have to find a way to subscribe/bookmark this thread.




But you've missed my point.
The 1D MKiii and 40D were released a few months apart, and they're aimed for completely different markets. They don't even share many of the same features. The XXD line isn't targeted for pros, it was aimed at the advanced amature, so I don't even know why the XXD line is even being brought up in a pro-level body discussion.
This is not a pro-level body discussion, this is a crop sensor discussion. Check the opening post.

I only made the point (personal opinion) that pro-level crop sensors are dead because anything with a crop sensor from any manufacturer released in the last 3 years is a consumer camera.
 
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Now I have to find a way to subscribe/bookmark this thread.






This is not a pro-level body discussion, this is a crop sensor discussion. Check the opening post.

I only made the point (personal opinion) that pro-level crop sensors are dead because anything with a crop sensor from any manufacturer released in the last 3 years is a consumer camera.
Alright, but the XXD line don't even share the same sensor with the 1D line.
1.6 and 1.3...Canons Pro crop has always been 1.3, while the 1.6 is for entry and advanced amature lines.
Either way, Canon wont cut the 1D line, or turn it into a FF line.
 
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I loved my D200 but I love my D300 even more. It just is easier to get the look I want right out of the camera instead of lots of PP later.
 

Growltiger

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I'm with you Holmes, I never liked the D300 either when shooting side by side with a D200.

Looking at the current trend it seems to me that camera manufacturers have already stopped developing pro-caliber DX cameras about 2-3 years ago. The D300 handling and focusing are not up to the D2Xs level, the Canon 40D and 50D are no match for the older 1D Mark II or 1D Mark III. I will bet my NikonCafe hat that the 1D Mark IV will not be 1.3x crop but a full frame camera instead to compete with the D3. Sony is a relative newcomer, but the only pro-caliber camera in their lineup is the Alpha900. Olympus cameras are small and cute, but the P&S quality noise performance and lack of dynamic range and primitive AF do not deliver enough IQ, despite the high quality glass and 2x crop factor.

If the camera manufacturers did really see this gaping hole in their lineups as something important, I'm sure someone would already have pushed out the ideal pro-level crop sensor camera, the "D3H" or the "EOS 1D Mark III N". No such things in 3 years must only mean the demise of pro-grade DX.

Any takers? My hat is here. :biggrin:
Nikon called the D300 a pro camera. And I'm sure they will call the D400 camera a pro camera too.

A DX camera is not going to have as good a viewfinder as FX obviously, but in other ways can be as "pro".

There seems to be a feeling that the D300 is so old, the 300s is no great difference, so it is all over for "pro" DX.

But I'm delighted Nikon are taking it slowly. I see little point in new models until there are significant sensor improvements (i.e. at least one stop), and these have not yet arrived. The D700 and D300 sensors are at about the same technology level - just a different trade-off between pixel density and high ISO performance.

Once we get the next generation sensors, we will see the D400, D800 and D4, using the improved technology. Everything else until then means very little. When will they arrive - maybe a year or two. That's fine.
 
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Finally getting over it (some), I had a D200 and was really getting great pictures from it. My camera store owner bud talked me into selling it and purchasing a D300. Initally I was not very happy with the D300. The images seemed soft and with a million different menus settings, I was not a happy D300 owner. But times are changing. I am having D300 fun now.

Still looking for another D200 though...:)
 
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