Equipment for hockey pictures

[bcarroll01]

I have been asked by the ice hockey team I coach to take their individual pictures. I don't have much equipment for lighting. I was considering buying this lighting kit: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/200412-REG/Photoflex__Umbrella_Kit.html and renting another flash along with using my Yonguno RF 602's to trigger them.

Would this be a good setup for the pictures or should I rethink what I am going to use? Any other suggestions?

 

[Mike66]

That kit does not include the bracket that attaches the umbrella and flash to the stand, so you will have to buy two brackets in order to be able to use the umbrellas. This puts the kit at $215, plus shipping, in order for it to be useable.

I recommend the Smith-Victor UK2 kit, also from B&H, for $120 plus shipping. It is ready to use out of the box, and I use this kit frequently with my speedlights. It works great, and the RF-602 trigger, with the SB-600 attached, will fit nicely in the clamp. If you ever plan on using the SB-900 mounted directly to the bracket, you should consider replacing the clamp with the Stroboframe 300-405 clamp.

If you are going to get serious with studio photography, you should consider buying a flash meter. The Sekonic L-308S or L-358 would be a good investment.

 

[bcarroll01]

Thanks for the reply. The smith victor set looks to be the better buy with having everything that I need.
I have 2 questions:
1.Would I be able to get away without a light_meter for this shoot.
2. Where would be a good place to learn the best way to set up the lighting?

That kit does not include the bracket that attaches the umbrella and flash to the stand, so you will have to buy two brackets in order to be able to use the umbrellas. This puts the kit at $215, plus shipping, in order for it to be useable.

I recommend the Smith-Victor UK2 kit, also from B&H, for $120 plus shipping. It is ready to use out of the box, and I use this kit frequently with my speedlights. It works great, and the RF-602 trigger, with the SB-600 attached, will fit nicely in the clamp. If you ever plan on using the SB-900 mounted directly to the bracket, you should consider replacing the clamp with the Stroboframe 300-405 clamp.

If you are going to get serious with studio photography, you should consider buying a flash meter. The Sekonic L-308S or L-358 would be a good investment.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks for the reply. The smith victor set looks to be the better buy with having everything that I need.

The Smith Victor kit is a very good buy, good stuff. Too light-weight for bigger softboxes, but just about perfect for speedlights in umbrellas.

I have 2 questions:
1.Would I be able to get away without a light_meter for this shoot.

We can do trial and error exposure with one light very easily, adjusting the power level for the picture we want. The rear LCD test picture, and the histogram, are big helps.

However, multiple lights have to have their power levels set with respect to each other too. It is harder to set two manual lights by trial and error, takes time, but of course it can be done. However, you have to realize the effect you seek, so you can arrive there. They are not set to be equal intensity or from random positions. In simplest terms, the Main light is about 45 degrees high and wide. The Fill light more frontal (close to lens axis), and is often about half intensity of the Main light, to be one stop less exposure, enough to just fill the Main light shadows in the degree desired (fill means to soften and lighten shadows, not to eliminate them). Distance of the lights from subject greatly affects these power levels of course, but your eye can see the shadows you are creating, to adjust them. Learning to look is often the biggest problem.

The light meter just makes this be very easy to do, so you actually know what you have, instead of trial and error.

I like manual flash in studio settings with a light meter, but one point:
The D90 commander TTL and two SB-600 or equivalent, has a light meter which can help measure this for you. FV Lock would be a key element, to prevent pictures of blinking, etc. See http://www.scantips.com/lights/awl.html

2. Where would be a good place to learn the best way to set up the lighting?

Speaking of individual pictures, maybe see http://www.scantips.com/lights/setup/

Shows the overall basic idea.

Regardless of method, practice some first. Try some things, see some things, find the surprises. Including at the actual final scene once, regarding background, etc. No athlete goes to the big game and expects to perform without learning how first. The big event should NOT be the first time to see any of this. :smile:

 

[Mike66]

Edit: Oops...Wayne beat me to it. :tongue:

Thanks for the reply. The smith victor set looks to be the better buy with having everything that I need.
I have 2 questions:
1.Would I be able to get away without a light_meter for this shoot.
2. Where would be a good place to learn the best way to set up the lighting?

Answer 1. Certainly, but you will likely have to practice prior to the session by taking some trial shots to balance the lighting. Document the location of each umbrella and settings of each speedlight so you can replicate the setup later. I did this a couple of times before I bought a flash meter, and it was time consuming.

Answer 2. In my opinion, the best place to start is:

What Umbrellas Do
Basics of Flash Photography
Strobist 101

When I set up for a two umbrella shoot, I set the key (main) umbrella at about 45 degrees to one side about five feet away from the subject and the center about a foot or two above head level. I set the fill umbrella almost directly in front of the subject about five feet away with the bottom of the umbrella at head level. I shoot directly under the fill umbrella.

Without a meter, you must guess at the power output of the speedlights, but you can start with the main at 1/2 power and the fill at 1/4 power. Set the camera in manual mode with any shutter speed below the sync speed (I like 1/125 second) and set the aperture to f/8.

Turn on only the key speedlight and take a practice shot. Adjust the power until you get a nice exposure. Then set the fill speedlight one stop below the key speedlight and take a practice shot with both speedlights.

With both speedlights on, you will have to decrease the aperture by a third stop since the light is additive. Alternatively, you can reduce the output of each speedlight by a third stop...practice to see which method works for you. You might have to move the umbrellas to fine tune the light intensity.

 

[rbsinto]

Are the shots of the individual players static or dynamic?
Are they to be taken on the ice or somewhere else inside the rink?
In my opinion before you go out and spend money on flashmeters, stands, umbrellas, clamps and so on, that you take the equipment you already have and experiment a bit first.
Get on the ice at the end of a practice, and have players skate toward you to a fixed point and then do a hard stop that "snows" you as you shoot them with flash.
For the goalies, have them stand in a crouch, and snap them as they drop into a semi or full butterfly. You can vary the brightness of the background by either setting the flash synch to its fastest available setting, or opening up the background by dragging the shutter (setting a relatively slow shutter speed while shooting with flash).
If the photos are to be static, you still might consider shooting them with diffused on-camera flash on the ice, to give a bit of context with reconizable elements of the arena in the background.
Yes, you might find that you equipment doesn't do the job and that buying or renting is required. However, since with or without an expenditure, you're still going to have to do some trial and error experimenting, so I suggest you see what you can do with what you already own to start the exercise before buying a bunch of stuff you might not even use again.

 

[bcarroll01]

Wayne and Mike thank you for the suggestions and websites, it gave me a lot more information to use as a starting point.

rbsinto the shots will be static. I will be trying different techniques as I have time before the shoot to see what will work and what won't. I have been wanting a set of stands and umbrellas for a while and would be buying them a little before I was planning.

 

[bcarroll01]

I took a few shots around my house messing around with one flash. I'm going to the rink on Sunday. So far the suggestions are working great to start out with.

 

[bcarroll01]

I did some test shots today. I found:
1. SB-600 mounted on camera with diffuser worked the best
2. 50mm 1.8 gave a small shadow to the right of the person.
3. Kit lens at 35mm gave no shadows

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

DSC_2902.jpg by bry1865, on Flickr
this was taken at 50mm/160sec/f8/iso400

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DSC_2919.jpg by bry1865, on Flickr
this was 38mm/160sec/f5.6/iso640

These are all SOOC

 

[sylvesterii]

Two comments.

First, you really need to get the flash off camera. the hard straight on light is not doing much for you. With an SB-600 and a D90, you have everything you need to do that. It will also function in iTTL, so you don't even need to worry about if you are shooting at 1/2 power of 1/64 power. You can set it up on your camera from -3 to +3 EV. Just practice a bit and test it out.

Second, try and move them further away from the background. That separation will help a lot even if you do throw a little shadow from the lighting, as well as give a more pleasing back drop.

One flash off camera in an umbrella triggered by your D90 and a reflector for fill can do a lot. Alternatively if you are going to use two flashes, then put one in an umbrella camera right or camera left at 45 degrees and slight above, and have the second either from behind as a hair light or above and basically on axis (straight on) the other side and about 1 1/2 or two stops down.

Here is a senior portraits I took of a hockey player in a rink. (I also took a lot of full body) It is purposefully dark and thus wouldn't really fit for team type shots, but could easily be lightened up by using the umbrella rather than a close soft box like I did (and I killed the ambient in a dark arena because it wasn't his home rink).

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JMH_20110903_165632 by jan.haapala, on Flickr

 

[bcarroll01]

Thanks for the tips. I am going to order an umbrella soon and give it some more practice.

Two comments.

First, you really need to get the flash off camera. the hard straight on light is not doing much for you. With an SB-600 and a D90, you have everything you need to do that. It will also function in iTTL, so you don't even need to worry about if you are shooting at 1/2 power of 1/64 power. You can set it up on your camera from -3 to +3 EV. Just practice a bit and test it out.

Second, try and move them further away from the background. That separation will help a lot even if you do throw a little shadow from the lighting, as well as give a more pleasing back drop.

One flash off camera in an umbrella triggered by your D90 and a reflector for fill can do a lot. Alternatively if you are going to use two flashes, then put one in an umbrella camera right or camera left at 45 degrees and slight above, and have the second either from behind as a hair light or above and basically on axis (straight on) the other side and about 1 1/2 or two stops down.

Here is a senior portraits I took of a hockey player in a rink. (I also took a lot of full body) It is purposefully dark and thus wouldn't really fit for team type shots, but could easily be lightened up by using the umbrella rather than a close soft box like I did (and I killed the ambient in a dark arena because it wasn't his home rink).

[URL]http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6145736513_362792b0ee_b.jpg[/url]
JMH_20110903_165632 by jan.haapala, on Flickr

 

[sylvesterii]

Even without an umbrella you can get going with practice right away. All you need is a cardboard box and a white sheet. Just cut a little hole in the back and drape the white sheet over the front. put it on a stool or stack something to place it up higher, and viola, instant soft box. the light will be a little more controlled and won't spill like an umbrella, but it will give you an idea of what you can accomplish with a much "larger" light source. For a reflector, you can just use a big piece of white poster board.

 

[bcarroll01]

With my school and work schedule I might not have time to practice until they would come in. If i do get a chance I will give it a try. I forgot to mention I like the photo a lot. I have never seen a picture like that from all of the years I have played and had photographers at tournaments and such.

Even without an umbrella you can get going with practice right away. All you need is a cardboard box and a white sheet. Just cut a little hole in the back and drape the white sheet over the front. put it on a stool or stack something to place it up higher, and viola, instant soft box. the light will be a little more controlled and won't spill like an umbrella, but it will give you an idea of what you can accomplish with a much "larger" light source. For a reflector, you can just use a big piece of white poster board.

 

[luke_28]

What Jan said ! His suggestions will improve your photos a great deal. Using the one camera flash with them so close to the wall, makes them look like mugshots with a hockey stick.
One umbrella with off camera flash and move them out from the wall will make you look like a pro.

 

[bcarroll01]

What Jan said ! His suggestions will improve your photos a great deal. Using the one camera flash with them so close to the wall, makes them look like mugshots with a hockey stick.
One umbrella with off camera flash and move them out from the wall will make you look like a pro.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm glad I am practicing well in advance before I have to do them.

 

[bcarroll01]

I am going to be getting a background and was wondering if this would work good:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437786-REG/Impact_3046_Background_Support_System.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...MST_BATD12GRYMST_Crush_Muslin_Background.html

 

[WayneF]

Looks good to me, a mottled gray background would be a favorite for anyone. Usable anytime, it does not clash with any color of clothing. The main purpose of a background is to NOT attract attention to itself. You can light it with a background flash, and drastically modify its appearance, it becomes light or dark with lighting. You can even put colored filters on that background light to make it appear red or blue or green, etc, and a middle gray is best for that too.

The background stand appears very conventional, should be fine. Other than sturdiness, one option for background stands is the cross pole. Some (like this one) are in sections, and width can be 3, or 6, or 9 or 12 feet wide. Other cross poles are telescoping, and can be any shorter length. Telescoping is very handy in tight places, like where you only have say 8 feet of space. Extension sections are no problem anywhere you have more space.

 

[bcarroll01]

Thanks, I wasn't sure if i should go with the one recommended with the backdrop of the one I linked. We picked that color due to our jerseys being light blue and white like the Penguins Winter Classic jerseys. Thanks for everyones help. I have a Smith Victor kit with an sb-700 and the backdrop and stands coming this week. Next is getting everything set up and practicing.

Looks good to me, a mottled gray background would be a favorite for anyone. Usable anytime, it does not clash with any color of clothing. The main purpose of a background is to NOT attract attention to itself. You can light it with a background flash, and drastically modify its appearance, it becomes light or dark with lighting. You can even put colored filters on that background light to make it appear red or blue or green, etc, and a middle gray is best for that too.

The background stand appears very conventional, should be fine. Other than sturdiness, one option for background stands is the cross pole. Some (like this one) are in sections, and width can be 3, or 6, or 9 or 12 feet wide. Other cross poles are telescoping, and can be any shorter length. Telescoping is very handy in tight places, like where you only have say 8 feet of space. Extension sections are no problem anywhere you have more space.

 

[WayneF]

Thanks, I wasn't sure if i should go with the one recommended with the backdrop of the one I linked. We picked that color due to our jerseys being light blue and white like the Penguins Winter Classic jerseys.

The gray is a great first choice for anything. A background light can make a tremendous difference. White or black are novelty items, we tend to get tired of them pretty quickly.

Not sure what your "Recommended" means. The stand brand is Savage, and Savage is the leading manufacturer of seamless paper backgrounds.
(Search B&H for seamless paper). These are rolls of thick paper, might be about 4 inches diameter, yards long, and in 54 and 107 inch widths, in a jillion colors. The paper roll is relatively inexpensive, but heavy and long, and shipping costs are very high (good item to buy locally, if you can get them home). It makes a fine background, but the paper is pretty fragile, and the least little accident will dent or crease or tear it. The idea is that the paper is expendable, just tear off any damaged part, and roll more of it out, until gone.

Stand works fine for muslin too.

First day things to know about muslin backgrounds:

The muslin background will come folded, and it will have severe fold crease marks in it. Not easy to get out. The best answer is an inexpensive clothing steamer from Walmart, $25 class, and it works well and quickly, each time.

Next best is a water spray bottle. Mist it strongly (but not really wet), and then let it hang a couple of hours. May have to be repeated.

Some people claim to tumble them in a cloths dryer with a damp towel, and I suppose they could be ironed? I use the spray bottle, which is frustrating, and then I keep them farther back behind subject.

Both water methods work better if the background is stretched somewhat tight first. Standard A clamps work best for that, to stretch to the side poles, and also for hanging the muslin on the cross pole in the first place. I mean A clamps like the couple of larger sizes of these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_202726-52800-XC-14PC_0__?productId=1057997&Ntt=clamp&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dclamp&facetInfo=

Rod pockets are a pain, the rod must come down to do it, and it does not alway hang perfectly straight. These clamps are vastly faster to hang the muslin on the cross bar too. Just throw a few inches over the cross bar and use three clamps to hold it. Makes it extremely easy to adjust to get the sag wrinkles out. Lightning fast, and works great. One person does it easily - Clamp one side, then the other side pulled tight, then center to adjust the sag wrinkles.

The standard way to store muslin backdrops is NOT to fold them, the wrinkles are too severe. Simply just scoop it up to wad it up in the most careless way, not too tightly, and store it in a large bag. I use larger kitchen plastic Glad bags. This causes very many wrinkles, but all smaller and random, harder to see, can even look like mottled pattern. You may want to do this first day, before the first use the next day.

Keep the background back 6 or 8 feet behind the subject, and then depth of field will blur the wrinkles out of sight. Or you could steam them out. It will appear darker that far from the main lights.

 

[bcarroll01]

Thanks for the tips and information. My parents have a steamer that we will use for the wrinkles.