FYI: NEW Nikon 50 / 1.4
- Thread starter forbidden_hero
- Start date
The front element of the new lens is slightly larger, it's hard to tell from the diagrams, but I'd say it has slightly less vignetting. But that's not the reason for the larger filter. The barrel is larger to accommodate the AFS motor. Also the lenses move within the barrel during focusing, the outer barrel is stationary unlike the older lens, so the barrel needs to be big enough to allow that.
Yeah that may be, I'm not privy to the design choices and compromises involved in Nikkor lens designs. AF-S and less vignetting are good things though!
They were a month ahead on those Tokina 11-16's, so hopefully it'll be the same for these. I know I want this lens and didn't want to get miles behind in a backorder queue so I whipped out the plastic! LOL I saw this pop up on my kenrockwell RSS feed on my Google homepage and was like haaaailll yeah! :tongue:
Geoff. Good point about tooling cost. Me thinks the problems is that the old tools that built the Nikkor AIS are out the door.Along with the "skilled craftsmen/women to do the work. Remember the hand polished Noct:biggrin: Iv made plastic tools and except for the mold , no tooling required. Now the cross hatching on the Nikkor AIS aperture ring requires tools(cutters on milling machine). And these bits wear out. And need to be resharpened. A typical Dye for a plastic injection mold made out of tool steel will last a life time.
I was talking to someone who sells used high end camera's/lenses for a living who also happens to be skilled in lens repair. His veiw on the new Nikkor's is that compared to the Nikkor AIS, "The new Nikkor's are not good":redface:.
And as far as marketing what heck is super ED glass?
Iv still not been able to get one straight answer on that one?
Remember when they used to place ED glass and not even tell us. Nikkor 3oo 4.5 Non IF?
As far as Nikon knowing more than we do. Hmm. I know what I see. I know what I feel. And I know what I can touch. And there is a unnamed magical quaility of the Nikkor AIS that Iv yet to feel with any of the plastic mass produced modern lens that are being pumped out today, that in the words of R.E.M, "leaves me cold"
And I wonder if they do know more than us? Maby more about price point and market share...OO. But Like I said . We are the consumers. And out of the 16 or so Nikkor's in my personal collection 8mm-800mm not one is a AF.
I have bought them and got rid of them. And while I have sold some really great Nikkor AIS ( most of which I have replaced and vow to never give up untill death) I have not once thought I sure miss that Nikkor 24 AF 2.8? the Nikkor 24 f2 AIS is a differnt story. That should say somthing. :tongue:.
If the new Nano coating are better on camera's like the D3 than why isnt nikon putting them on there latest new pro 50 1.4? VR add three stops to the ability to hand hold. Where is it. Like I said they can shove there "letters on the barrel" down are throats on the endless consumer ?_ zoom lenses than why not the one lens every single person who owns a nikon should have in the collection. Maby we dont need VR. Maby we dont need Nano coatings. Heck maby we should just buy used Nikkor 50 1.2 AIS for $400.00 off cafe members?. Wait a minute, that me. The consumer dosnt know any better:redface:. Well if its up to me, now they do. Nikon is getting rich and we are getting less than what I know they could put out. Look at the Nikkor 200 F2 VR.:biggrin:. Why dont they give us there best every single, every single lens?
Im not stupid, its because of price point. Adding that coating would add(_?_) on (__?__) units Nikon thinks they can sell in (__?__)time frame.
And after all who cares because twe are just going to release version 2 in a couple of years anyway:frown:., Get it right the first time Nikon.
I bought my Son a D70 and loaned him my Nikkor 300 4.5 ED-IF AIS untill I good afford to buy him a AF. He like his 70-300 ED lens I got him for him birthday but told me later, when I told him I was going to buy him a AF so he could trade me back the Nikkor 50 f2 AIS that dosnt even meter on his camera. Dad you screwed me on the 300 4.5 ED-IF AIS your not getting the 50 back. I was so proud. He is only 11 and he can tell good from not bad , but not so good as what I had before.
Be honest does this new Nikon 50 1.4 meet or exceed your expectaions.
One of my friends is one of the best Knife makers in Canada, maby the world. He said somthing that was struck me to the core one time
"excellence is the only game in town"
When I pick up a classic Nikkor AIS like the 50 1.2 AIS Im in in awe. I think about the designer who came up with it . The craftsmen that spent years perfecting there craft making it. It amazing to me that 20 plus years later it still works as good as it did the day it was made. My collection of Nikkor's and all the photo's Iv taking with them over the last 25 years is somthing I will pass down to my childern. When I pick up one of the new Nikkor AF I feel nothing. Except maby a lump in my throat. Im with this thread, and nikkor's lumpy AF glass.
Gregory
I was talking to someone who sells used high end camera's/lenses for a living who also happens to be skilled in lens repair. His veiw on the new Nikkor's is that compared to the Nikkor AIS, "The new Nikkor's are not good":redface:.
And as far as marketing what heck is super ED glass?
Iv still not been able to get one straight answer on that one?
Remember when they used to place ED glass and not even tell us. Nikkor 3oo 4.5 Non IF?
As far as Nikon knowing more than we do. Hmm. I know what I see. I know what I feel. And I know what I can touch. And there is a unnamed magical quaility of the Nikkor AIS that Iv yet to feel with any of the plastic mass produced modern lens that are being pumped out today, that in the words of R.E.M, "leaves me cold"
And I wonder if they do know more than us? Maby more about price point and market share...OO. But Like I said . We are the consumers. And out of the 16 or so Nikkor's in my personal collection 8mm-800mm not one is a AF.
I have bought them and got rid of them. And while I have sold some really great Nikkor AIS ( most of which I have replaced and vow to never give up untill death) I have not once thought I sure miss that Nikkor 24 AF 2.8? the Nikkor 24 f2 AIS is a differnt story. That should say somthing. :tongue:.
If the new Nano coating are better on camera's like the D3 than why isnt nikon putting them on there latest new pro 50 1.4? VR add three stops to the ability to hand hold. Where is it. Like I said they can shove there "letters on the barrel" down are throats on the endless consumer ?_ zoom lenses than why not the one lens every single person who owns a nikon should have in the collection. Maby we dont need VR. Maby we dont need Nano coatings. Heck maby we should just buy used Nikkor 50 1.2 AIS for $400.00 off cafe members?. Wait a minute, that me. The consumer dosnt know any better:redface:. Well if its up to me, now they do. Nikon is getting rich and we are getting less than what I know they could put out. Look at the Nikkor 200 F2 VR.:biggrin:. Why dont they give us there best every single, every single lens?
Im not stupid, its because of price point. Adding that coating would add(_?_) on (__?__) units Nikon thinks they can sell in (__?__)time frame.
And after all who cares because twe are just going to release version 2 in a couple of years anyway:frown:., Get it right the first time Nikon.
I bought my Son a D70 and loaned him my Nikkor 300 4.5 ED-IF AIS untill I good afford to buy him a AF. He like his 70-300 ED lens I got him for him birthday but told me later, when I told him I was going to buy him a AF so he could trade me back the Nikkor 50 f2 AIS that dosnt even meter on his camera. Dad you screwed me on the 300 4.5 ED-IF AIS your not getting the 50 back. I was so proud. He is only 11 and he can tell good from not bad , but not so good as what I had before.
Be honest does this new Nikon 50 1.4 meet or exceed your expectaions.
One of my friends is one of the best Knife makers in Canada, maby the world. He said somthing that was struck me to the core one time
"excellence is the only game in town"
When I pick up a classic Nikkor AIS like the 50 1.2 AIS Im in in awe. I think about the designer who came up with it . The craftsmen that spent years perfecting there craft making it. It amazing to me that 20 plus years later it still works as good as it did the day it was made. My collection of Nikkor's and all the photo's Iv taking with them over the last 25 years is somthing I will pass down to my childern. When I pick up one of the new Nikkor AF I feel nothing. Except maby a lump in my throat. Im with this thread, and nikkor's lumpy AF glass.
Gregory
Very well said Gregory. You and I have discussed the older AI-S lenses and have a real love for them, and there are reasons for that, that you have stated so eloquently.
I've yet to pick up an AF-S lens that felt as good as the AI-S lenses I own.
I've yet to pick up an AF-S lens that felt as good as the AI-S lenses I own.
This thread sure grew quickly!
I'm looking forward to trying this lens out. I hope there are soon others like it. As much as I like my couple of zooms, it will be nice to have some modern small primes to use on the digital bodies. Small Nikkors that is, I haven't tried the others brands.
I'm looking forward to trying this lens out. I hope there are soon others like it. As much as I like my couple of zooms, it will be nice to have some modern small primes to use on the digital bodies. Small Nikkors that is, I haven't tried the others brands.
Gregory,
As far as form, fit, finish, feel, sexiness, and just plain old coolness, yes AIS rocks. No question that they are well made, feel great, handle great, and are built to exacting standards. Optically some are great -- legendary in fact. But in todays world I think those mechanical marvels would be far too costly to manufacture for mere mortals to possess. Optical science, design (computer aided, etc) and manufacturing have evolved through the years and (IMO) newer lenses are generally optically superior (especially zooms)(and yes, exceptions exist). If Nikon could marry the newer optical designs with the older mechanical marvels the results would be astounding but I fear far too costly. OTOH, newer lenses such as the 14-24 and the 200/2 VR are astounding in their own right. Yes, they may not impart the same sense of satisfaction and gratification during use that AIS lenses do but they sure do when looking at the results. I've generally avoided most AF (screwdriver) lenses because they just don't feel right to me (and some of those I actually loath to use). I haven't owned a screwdriver lens in years (many years) but I don't have the same distain for most AF-S lenses (exceptions exist). Sure, they're a compromise between the true mechanical marvels and the awful plasticky feeling horrible screwdriver lenses but it's a compromise I'm willing to make because I've become accustomed to (and somewhat reliant on) letting the camera do the focusing and I welcome the whiz bang AF-S, N, VR, ED, and aspherical technologies. And this brings me back to the topic at hand.....I've waited patiently for AF-S primes - I expect this new bad boy to be optically superior to it's current counterpart and mechanically superior as well. This will be the first 50mm prime lens I've owned in the last 15 years or so. But, I do understand the lure of the mechanical beauties and it's great to see folks like yourself using and caring and lusting for them.
As far as form, fit, finish, feel, sexiness, and just plain old coolness, yes AIS rocks. No question that they are well made, feel great, handle great, and are built to exacting standards. Optically some are great -- legendary in fact. But in todays world I think those mechanical marvels would be far too costly to manufacture for mere mortals to possess. Optical science, design (computer aided, etc) and manufacturing have evolved through the years and (IMO) newer lenses are generally optically superior (especially zooms)(and yes, exceptions exist). If Nikon could marry the newer optical designs with the older mechanical marvels the results would be astounding but I fear far too costly. OTOH, newer lenses such as the 14-24 and the 200/2 VR are astounding in their own right. Yes, they may not impart the same sense of satisfaction and gratification during use that AIS lenses do but they sure do when looking at the results. I've generally avoided most AF (screwdriver) lenses because they just don't feel right to me (and some of those I actually loath to use). I haven't owned a screwdriver lens in years (many years) but I don't have the same distain for most AF-S lenses (exceptions exist). Sure, they're a compromise between the true mechanical marvels and the awful plasticky feeling horrible screwdriver lenses but it's a compromise I'm willing to make because I've become accustomed to (and somewhat reliant on) letting the camera do the focusing and I welcome the whiz bang AF-S, N, VR, ED, and aspherical technologies. And this brings me back to the topic at hand.....I've waited patiently for AF-S primes - I expect this new bad boy to be optically superior to it's current counterpart and mechanically superior as well. This will be the first 50mm prime lens I've owned in the last 15 years or so. But, I do understand the lure of the mechanical beauties and it's great to see folks like yourself using and caring and lusting for them.
P
Paul.r.lindqvist
Guest
Well im talking about the Current AF Nikkor 50/1,4, and iv tested two copies of the sigma on both the D3/D2X, and there simply is no night and day diffrence in wide open performance.
I fault it for the colors and the build/handling, its the main reason i didnt keep it.
The new Nikkor will most likely be more similar in AF speed to the rest of nikons AF-S lineup then the sigma, wich isnt quite as fast or silent.
Kindest
P
Paul.r.lindqvist
Guest
Then you have no real incication of the corner performance, since the D200 dont use the corners...
My Sigma focuses lightning fast and totally silent. It's sharp all over the frame of my D200 wide open... sharper than my old 1.4 all manual Nikkor. It's solidly built like a pro grade lens should be. But most importantly, the Sigma is a LOT more useful than that old "classic". All my burdensome "classics" live in a camera bag in the closet now. I'm using lenses that work better for me now. Is the Sigma better than the new Nikon? Is it worth $50 more? We'll find out. But the Sigma is definitely better than the old Nikon. There is absolutely no reason to buy the old Nikon 50 1.4 unless you can get it super cheap.
When I was into film, I was a snob when it came to third party lenses. I turned my nose up at them like people do online now. Perhaps back then, there really was a difference. I don't know. But I suspect that I was just a Nikkor snob. I wanted all the focus grips to match. I reacted with horror to the slip sliding rubber grip on the Micro Nikkor. I was a stupid kid.
But now I've grown up, and with my D200, I see the advantages of new technology that improves usability and new optical designs that increase image quality. I'm not going to make a fetish over a particular type of gnurled black focusing rings. I'm going to use what works well.
In some cases, like my Tokina 11-16, Nikon isn't even in the game. In others like my Sigma 50 1.4, the Nikon equivalent isn't as sharp or fast focusing. In others still, like my Tokina 100 macro, there is no reason to spend as much as Nikon wants for pretty much the same thing.
When Nikon has a good unique lens that fits my needs, I buy it. I've got an 18-200 VR and I love the versatility. My bum around lens is a Nikon kit lens made for the D60. it works fine for what I am using it for and it was dirt cheap.
If a Nikon lens is competitive, I buy that- if a third party is competitive, I buy that. I'm not married to "the magic of Nikon". There's no point making a fetish of equipment, and even less reason to judge quality by the name on the lens cap. I just wants what works and I don't want to spend too much for it.
See ya
Steve
When I was into film, I was a snob when it came to third party lenses. I turned my nose up at them like people do online now. Perhaps back then, there really was a difference. I don't know. But I suspect that I was just a Nikkor snob. I wanted all the focus grips to match. I reacted with horror to the slip sliding rubber grip on the Micro Nikkor. I was a stupid kid.
But now I've grown up, and with my D200, I see the advantages of new technology that improves usability and new optical designs that increase image quality. I'm not going to make a fetish over a particular type of gnurled black focusing rings. I'm going to use what works well.
In some cases, like my Tokina 11-16, Nikon isn't even in the game. In others like my Sigma 50 1.4, the Nikon equivalent isn't as sharp or fast focusing. In others still, like my Tokina 100 macro, there is no reason to spend as much as Nikon wants for pretty much the same thing.
When Nikon has a good unique lens that fits my needs, I buy it. I've got an 18-200 VR and I love the versatility. My bum around lens is a Nikon kit lens made for the D60. it works fine for what I am using it for and it was dirt cheap.
If a Nikon lens is competitive, I buy that- if a third party is competitive, I buy that. I'm not married to "the magic of Nikon". There's no point making a fetish of equipment, and even less reason to judge quality by the name on the lens cap. I just wants what works and I don't want to spend too much for it.
See ya
Steve
Amen to that.
P
Paul.r.lindqvist
Guest
Not sure if the post was a reponse to my post or not, if it was.
Well we obviously have very diffrent references and standards. It would be a flat out lie to call the sigma totally silent, cause it simply isnt, no af lens is and the sigma is no exception, its louder and has a "clunkier" sound compared to the nikkor af-s lenses i own.
As for the speed, its simply isnt as fast, and d200 is hardly lightning fast regardless of wich lens you put on it.
For the record, i suspect i own more 3rd party glasss then the average Nikon owner...
I guess so...:wink:
Last edited by a moderator:
Look fellas. It boils down to personal preference. We are all individuals and have different tastes and standards. Just because Paul didn't like the performance of a lens doesn't automatically make it a bad lens? Now way! Right, Paul? Vice versa - if Paul loves a lens, it doesn't automatically mean that others should go out and buy it just because his findings were outstanding. We can't all own the same exact lenses, that'd be boring.
Absolutely Francis. It's like judging relative sharpness or color rendition. One person might love the color they're getting and another may think it's too saturated, and on and on.
If a lens performs for you and gives you what you want or need in IQ, color, sharpness, etc then it's a good lens for you regardless of what anyone else may say. There are examples of this all over this and other forums.
If a lens performs for you and gives you what you want or need in IQ, color, sharpness, etc then it's a good lens for you regardless of what anyone else may say. There are examples of this all over this and other forums.
It's rather disappointing to hear Paul's opinion that the Sigma 50/1.4 isn't significantly better than the current Nikkor on a full-frame camera.
Respectfully, a test on full-frame is the real test for a Nikon-mount lens nowadays. A D200 can't show the complete picture on a lens originally designed for film. Unless one NEVER goes to full-frame.
It'll be interesting to see how the new Nikkor does against the Sigma on a D700/D3. If it's about as good optically, then the Sigma is a non-factor on Nikon bodies -- cheaper, much more compact. If the Sigma does some things better, the Nikon others, then we'll have another common thread repeated over and over -- "Sigma 50/1.4 HSM or Nikon 50/1.4 AF-S". :biggrin:
Respectfully, a test on full-frame is the real test for a Nikon-mount lens nowadays. A D200 can't show the complete picture on a lens originally designed for film. Unless one NEVER goes to full-frame.
It'll be interesting to see how the new Nikkor does against the Sigma on a D700/D3. If it's about as good optically, then the Sigma is a non-factor on Nikon bodies -- cheaper, much more compact. If the Sigma does some things better, the Nikon others, then we'll have another common thread repeated over and over -- "Sigma 50/1.4 HSM or Nikon 50/1.4 AF-S". :biggrin:
I have no doubt the sigma 50 is awesome, it just boils down to size. This and D700 without grip will be a nice sneaky lens combo!
P
Paul.r.lindqvist
Guest
Offcouse Francis, the thing is i dont toss around terms like absolutely silent and stellar performance from corner to corner unless my own experience actually showed those results.
As i also said in previous threads regarding the sigma its a great lens for the money, however its not head and shoulders over any(meaning Nikkor 50/1,4, Zeiss 50/1,4, Voigtländer 58/1,4) lens as far as sharpness goes wide open.
Again a great lens, but not for me.
As for comparing it to the new Nikkor, well we all guessing at this point.:biggrin:
Now if you like the sigma thats great, use it and be happy.:smile:
Perhaps the (old) Nikkor and Sigma both have more resolution than the D3/D700 can resolve, and the D200/300 DX sensors with higher resolution can resolve more detail, which either means the Sigma shines more or the Nikkor suffers.
Paul is spot on in that superlatives are used all too often, especially here in the internet. That other internet digital photography site is famous for the over use of the expression "blows away."
For the most part we're talking about shades of difference and nuance in new gear rather than what I would call significant. To me, Canon's first full frame was significant as was the D3 with respect to what existed at the time. With the exception of the very high end, where cost is no object, manufacturing technology is well known by all the major photographic equipment manufacturers. The name of the game is engineering compromises consistent with expenses and profit margins.
Thanks, Rich
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