how do I rotate an image with View NX2?

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View NX2 just made me look like an idiot.

My wife shot a bunch of pictures, with her new Nikon P&S, on a trip, and I showed her how easy it was to use Nikon Transfer and ViewNX2 to download and view the photos. She needed to rotate those that were shot in portrait orientation; no problem, I said, select those photos and use the Rotate tools on the toolbar.

But then later she tried to post some on Facebook, and found the files hadn't been modified. Although they appear rotated in VNX2, the actual images weren't changed. I spent 15 minutes fiddling with VNX2 and reading the Help and couldn't figure it out. Apparently VNX2 won't actually rotate an image, just cheerfully show you what it would would look like, if you could actually rotate it.

Of what use is this? Am I missing something obvious?
 
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Well, you missed something, but it wasn't obvious. I wasn't going to let this program beat me. Normal people would expect the word "save" somewhere. Right click after you select the files and look for the word "output" then "convert" (or click File, then Convert). At the bottom of the box, watch for the setting "change filename". If it is checked, it will make a copy but if not, it will overwrite the existing file.
 
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Thanks, Omar, for restoring my faith in myself. I had looked everywhere for a 'save'. I did find 'convert' but could not convince myself that was the route to success.

My wife is a typical P&S user, and the first thing she wanted to do was rotate her portrait mode photos. And neither she, nor her husband the software engineer, could figure out how to do that. And now I have to show her this unbelievably obscure series of steps. (There is probably a way to rotate the photos in the camera, which will be simpler.)

What is Nikon thinking of, with stuff like this?
 
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Thanks, Omar, for restoring my faith in myself. I had looked everywhere for a 'save'. I did find 'convert' but could not convince myself that was the route to success.

My wife is a typical P&S user, and the first thing she wanted to do was rotate her portrait mode photos. And neither she, nor her husband the software engineer, could figure out how to do that. And now I have to show her this unbelievably obscure series of steps. (There is probably a way to rotate the photos in the camera, which will be simpler.)

What is Nikon thinking of, with stuff like this?

Like the rest of us we hope there is someone thinking when it come to nikon software but I worry that it is all in vain.
 
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In ViewNX 2 (I'm using v2.1.1 on a Win XP machine): I think if you
- highlight the thumbnails of the images you want to rotate,
- hit the CW or CCW rotate icon on the toolbar,
- and then click on ANY image, the rotation will be performed and the files will be saved in the background.

At the bottom of ViewNX's display is a bar that, in a tranquil moment, says "No queued processes". But once you click on an image the message changes to one of performing a rotation. I looked at the images afterwards in FastStone and they were indeed rotated.
 
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Thanks, g_glip9, I may try that. But the problem with the solutions you and Omar found is that they're impossible to remember unless you use the program regularly.

This is of course the exact opposite of good user interface design.
 
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In ViewNX 2 (I'm using v2.1.1 on a Win XP machine): I think if you
- highlight the thumbnails of the images you want to rotate,
- hit the CW or CCW rotate icon on the toolbar,
- and then click on ANY image, the rotation will be performed and the files will be saved in the background.

At the bottom of ViewNX's display is a bar that, in a tranquil moment, says "No queued processes". But once you click on an image the message changes to one of performing a rotation. I looked at the images afterwards in FastStone and they were indeed rotated.

I guess I'm doing it wrong then. I don't see the message change when I rotate the image. Using the Windows Picture Viewer, the image isn't rotated when I test this. Is there some step I'm missing?
 
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Can you try a different viewer? Using the images rotated in View NX2 I've looked at them in Irfanview, FastStone & Picture Window Pro: all show the images as being rotated. They show up rotated in full screen and thumbnails.
 

Growltiger

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If you are using an old version of Windows, the Picture Viewer wasn't capable of reading the EXIF flag and doing the rotation. I recommend you download FastStone Viewer (free).

You need to distinguish between a hard rotation, and a soft rotation, i.e. when the rotation happens because the software supports the EXIF orientation flag. Nowadays pretty much all software supports it.
 
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If you are using an old version of Windows, the Picture Viewer wasn't capable of reading the EXIF flag and doing the rotation. I recommend you download FastStone Viewer (free).

You need to distinguish between a hard rotation, and a soft rotation, i.e. when the rotation happens because the software supports the EXIF orientation flag. Nowadays pretty much all software supports it.

A fully patched version of Vista on the computer I was using to test this. As a secondary test, I used Picasa and found it recognized the rotation change, but when I made a second change in VNX2, Picasa didn't recognize that.

Things aren't happening seamlessly in ViewNX2. Since this isn't my personal issue, I doubt I will do anymore troubleshooting.
 
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The difference is between setting a rotation flag in EXIF vs. actually manipulating the bits and transforming the image data. The latter is (or can be) a lossy operation in JPG.

I think ViewNX is setting the flag because when I open the images a second time in ViewNX, they're rotated. But the actual image data is unchanged so applications and sites that use only the data and not the flag (of which there are many - Facebook for example) won't show them as rotated.
 
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For future reference: At any time when in NX2, press F1 and help will immediately be provided.

In the left panel select 'Index' which provides a word list that includes 'Rotate'. Or select 'Search' and type 'Rotate' to get the same information.

Incidentally, rotating a jpeg is super-easy in Windows Explorer. Right click on the image and choose CW or CCW.
 
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Once true, now an old wife's tale. Since XP, MS uses an algorithm which simply reverses row and column data without uncompressing the file.

The free version of FastStone Viewer is still reported by Norton and McAfee as questionable.
 

Growltiger

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Once true, now an old wife's tale. Since XP, MS uses an algorithm which simply reverses row and column data without uncompressing the file.

The free version of FastStone Viewer is still reported by Norton and McAfee as questionable.

MS doesn't do lossless rotation - it rotates the file and then does a JPG save which has degraded the image. Sorry, you are wrong. Try it for yourself.

Don't use Norton or MacAfee - easy solution.
 
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MS doesn't do lossless rotation - it rotates the file and then does a JPG save which has degraded the image. Sorry, you are wrong. Try it for yourself.

Don't use Norton or MacAfee - easy solution.

Okay. If I use XP's (computer I'm sitting at right now) Picture and Fax Viewer, the file size will change ever so slightly, but the save time/date doesn't change. If I then rotate it back and save it, the file size went back to approximately the original size. Again, the date/time stamp didn't change. I won't get into a discussion on whether this is a lossy rotation or not. I think that has evolved over the years, but am not completely sure.

If I do the rotate in VNX2, the date/time stamp changes. This is only an exif rotate, so the file size doesn't change.

This change is only visible to programs that know how to read that. If I want to make the rotation visible to all programs such as web browsers, I need to find a way to save it. In VNX2, there are two options. The first is to use the Convert feature I detailed earlier.

The second is to make an additional editing change which will enable the save button. I discovered that you can make an adjustment, rotate the image and then change the adjustment back. Now you can save the rotation so that non-imaging programs such as web browsers will see the rotation.
 

Growltiger

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There is plenty of software that will do a hard rotate of a JPG, losslessly. The Save does not recompress the image. It is a special algorithm. You can do a million lossless rotates with no loss of quality.

For example download FastStone Viewer, which is free. Under Tools you will find JPEG lossless rotate.

Note that this is quite different to just changing the EXIF orientation, which is a lossless soft rotation.

I should have said originally that Windows 7 is the first version of windows that does lossless JPEG rotation (using its Picture Viewer). So if you have XP or Vista, or anything earlier, then you will degrade your image, even if only slightly.
 
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There is plenty of software that will do a hard rotate of a JPG, losslessly. The Save does not recompress the image. It is a special algorithm. You can do a million lossless rotates with no loss of quality.

For example download FastStone Viewer, which is free. Under Tools you will find JPEG lossless rotate.

Note that this is quite different to just changing the EXIF orientation, which is a lossless soft rotation.

The original question was how to do this within ViewNX2 which is also free. I believe we are now able to answer the question that it is indeed possible, and that it shouldn't be as difficult as it is to figure out how to do so.

I also have FastStone Viewer on one of my computers, but have stopped using it because many of its features duplicate the features I use in VNX2 and Picasa. For specific reasons, I have settled on those two free browser/viewers for my purposes. This doesn't take away from the quality of Fastone Viewer. I like a number of its features. I just have program overload.
 
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