I took delivery of a 600 f/4 AIS *solved- sample image thread*

[Mad Hatter]

Well I was fairly excited yesterday as my BGN 600 f/4 AIS came from KEH. It was miserable and overcast yesterday but I took it out just to see if it was ok. I bumped up the ISO to get some high shutter speeds (1/1250 at least, usually higher) and attached it to my manfrotto 681B monopod to take some pictures of street signs just to see if it was ok. I was automatically disappointed as almost nothing was sharp. I blamed myself, and my lack of a sturdy enough tripod/head. All day today I've been pricing out support, but I figured I'd give it another shot with the monopod. Again, it was overcast and mucky out there. Again, no joy but this time there was a bit more light and I was shooting speeds of 1/4000 and over so i was starting to get suspicious. As I was getting closer to home the clouds cleared up around mount rundle and the haze went away. I figured, alright, lets try again. I set the lens on top of the car (not caring if it scratched it) and attempted to focus to infinity. I was having trouble with this earlier today and yesterday but chalked it up to the mist/haze in the sky. The 600f/4 focusing well past the infinity mark. I went past the infinity mark until I could go no further, and not only did it still look soft in the finder but the focus assist arrows on the D700 were indicating that I needed to focus further in that direction.

I'm loathe to blame gear but I really think there's something wrong with it considering I can't even get infinity focus.

I was hoping to shoot this primarily from a monopod. A challenge to be sure but I shoot the 300 f/2.8 AI from a monopod with about a 8 out of ten success rate with stationary objects. I certainly expected that rate to fall with the 600 but I'm not even getting 1 in 30 remotely sharp with this thing. I really think I can't be that bad at focusing.

I'm phoning KEH tomorrow, but would anyone like to chime in with their thoughts or experiences? I know gregory (nikkor AIS) shot this lens on a monopod. I don't expect to get his success rate but I certainly didn't expect it to be this disastrous.

 

[Thorsten]

That certainly does not sound good. Have you tried to put it on a tripod and carefully focused using live view, zoomed in to 100%? Also, does it have a filter slot? I'm not familiar with the AIS lenses, but on certain lenses, the clear filter must be installed otherwise there can be issues with infinity focus.

 

[Mad Hatter]

That certainly does not sound good. Have you tried to put it on a tripod and carefully focused using live view, zoomed in to 100%? Also, does it have a filter slot? I'm not familiar with the AIS lenses, but on certain lenses, the clear filter must be installed otherwise there can be issues with infinity focus.

Thanks for posting Thorsten. Yup it does have a filter slot and yes the 39mm UV is in fact in place.

I have not mounted on a tripod as my support is woefully inadequate. I wouldn't have even started questioning if the gear was sound without that step but the fact that I couldn't even focus to infinity sent up imidate warning bells that something must be wrong.

 

[Thorsten]

Must be something wrong with the lens then, I can't think of anything else. It should focus on infinity. Check with KEH and see if they will cover return shipping, it's probably expensive with this lens.

 

[CAJames]

That doesn't sound right, I'd send it back. If you can get good results consistently with a 300 f/2.8 then I don't think you're the problem.

 

[Mad Hatter]

That doesn't sound right, I'd send it back. If you can get good results consistently with a 300 f/2.8 then I don't think you're the problem.

I was expecting it to be twice as hard to use. I was expecting a 4 out of 10 success rate with it on stationary objects. I am nowhere near that, infact I don't think anything I've produced with it could be considered 'sharp'.

I'll get some samples up in a few ticks.

Thanks everyone for your input thus far.

 

[Jason]

First, congrats on the new lens. I am sorry to hear your results though...but all is not lost, not yet. When I first took delivery of my 600VR, I was HORRIBLY disappointed with my results. My biggest lens up to that time was my 200-400VR, to which I would add a 1.4 or a 1.7 tc to, at the most. I became very skilled with that combo.

When I began shooting with my 600VR, my shots were soft. In my case, it was all TECHNIQUE. I don't see how you can adequately test this lens without proper support. That is one heck of a lens for any monopod, and I might add the same applies for MANY tripods.

With big glass, one NEEDS proper support. You need to test this glass when it has the proper support it needs. Some quick grabs will tell the story pretty quickly once you have it on the proper tripod and head. At first, like your already doing, keep your shutter speeds up...but honestly anything over 1/1000 should tell the story, even if this is your first piece of BIG glass. There is a big learning curve with big glass so don't get discouraged yet.

Once you have the proper support, and do the tests...if you then fail to get sharp images, I would then begin to look for the issue. Check with a different body, AF fine tune (if your current body has that capability). With that said, I am not one who does all this fine tune stuff...NONE of my bodies have any such adjustments on them. I wish you well and look forward to hearing more about your tests.

If all else fails...do you have the chance to return this item for a refund?

 

[sambo.]

i'm going to say there's something wrong with the lens.

back in the day, i shot a LOT of sport with one of those babies mounted on a monopod.

i actually found it relativly easy to nail focus.

you really KNOW when you've got focus with a 600/4 as the image suddenly leaps off the ground glass screen at you.

 

[Jason]

Thought of something else. If you don't have access to the proper tripod and head, just use a pillow or cushion that will support the entire rig safely and by itself. Pick something to focus on...and take a shot. With proper support, one will be able to tell if the lens is capable of producing sharp images.

 

[Mad Hatter]

First, congrats on the new lens. I am sorry to hear your results though...but all is not lost, not yet. When I first took delivery of my 600VR, I was HORRIBLY disappointed with my results. My biggest lens up to that time was my 200-400VR, to which I would add a 1.4 or a 1.7 tc to, at the most. I became very skilled with that combo.

When I began shooting with my 600VR, my shots were soft. In my case, it was all TECHNIQUE. I don't see how you can adequately test this lens without proper support. That is one heck of a lens for any monopod, and I might add the same applies for MANY tripods.

With big glass, one NEEDS proper support. You need to test this glass when it has the proper support it needs. Some quick grabs will tell the story pretty quickly once you have it on the proper tripod and head. At first, like your already doing, keep your shutter speeds up...but honestly anything over 1/1000 should tell the story, even if this is your first piece of BIG glass. There is a big learning curve with big glass so don't get discouraged yet.

Once you have the proper support, and do the tests...if you then fail to get sharp images, I would then begin to look for the issue. Check with a different body, AF fine tune (if your current body has that capability). With that said, I am not one who does all this fine tune stuff...NONE of my bodies have any such adjustments on them. I wish you well and look forward to hearing more about your tests.

If all else fails...do you have the chance to return this item for a refund?

Thanks. I agree about support but I had the lens resting on the roof of the car for the infinity shots and I still couldn't physically focus it to infinity. It's entirely possible that my shots from 30 feet out were soft because of me, but the fact that it can't focus to infinity proves something is wrong, at least I think.

Also the lens is a manual focus lens, so there's no AF fine tune.


So if anyone who's shot the 600 f/4 AIS can comment on how much more difficult it is to shoot than the 300 f/2.8 AI I'd be appreciative.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Mad Hatter]

i'm going to say there's something wrong with the lens.

back in the day, i shot a LOT of sport with one of those babies mounted on a monopod.

i actually found it relativly easy to nail focus.

you really KNOW when you've got focus with a 600/4 as the image suddenly leaps off the ground glass screen at you.

Thanks sambo, never once was I capable of getting the image to jump out at me on the ground glass. I can all the time with the 300 f/2.8, but I've never made it happen with this lens.

Thanks again.

 

[sambo.]

So if anyone who's shot the 600 f/4 AIS can comment on how much more difficult it is to shoot than the 300 f/2.8 AI I'd be appreciative.

honestly, i found the 600/4 (and 400/2.8) easier to manually focus than a 300/2.8. but you already know my feelings about 300/2.8 glass :biggrin:

that said, if i got more than ~15'ish frames on a 36 shot roll tack sharp manually spinning any of those beasts, i was pretty happy with myself.

Thanks sambo, never once was I capable of getting the image to jump out at me on the ground glass. I can all the time with the 300 f/2.8, but I've never made it happen with this lens.

Thanks again.

there's the rub. something is definatly wrong with the lens.

nail focus on one of these babies and the image just screams at you through the viewfinder.

will KEH fix it for you?

 

[hdavid]

Whoa - Hold it - Whoa....... Your lens is not at fault......... Here is why.

The 600mm F4 AIS has a rotatable front element. It is used to fine-tune-focus the entire lens due to temperature variations that may occur - as there is a lot of metal and glass involved. I bought Nikkor AIS's 600mm F4 and found this out myself.

Here is how to focus/fix it.......

Mount lens on tripod with camera. Focus as best you can at the infinity mark - or something that is at infinity. Blurry? Great!

Now go stand in front of the lens. You will see at the edges of the glass - a ring that has two opposing notches. One on one side of the lens - one on the other. With your finger nails - put them in the notches and ROTATE the front lens element. It will spin in either direction - unless it is rotated fully in - or out. Rotate 90 degress and check focus. Not good enough but better - then rotate another 90 degrees. Continue fiddling until the lens can be focused at infinity and you get a super sharp image. The lens will focus past infinity - to again - allow for temperature changes / expansion / contraction.

If you can find an old owners manual for the 600mm F4 - this procedure should be documented/shown. It worked great on mine - and depending on the outside temperature - is the first thing I do to "set" my lens up.

Try this before you send anything back. Someone was probably fooling with the front element and has either backed it fully out - or fully in - resulting in crappy infinity focusing.

Let us know if this fixes the problem.


Regards,

David

 

[Mad Hatter]

honestly, i found the 600/4 (and 400/2.8) easier to manually focus than a 300/2.8. but you already know my feelings about 300/2.8 glass :biggrin:

that said, if i got more than ~15'ish frames on a 36 shot roll tack sharp manually spinning any of those beasts, i was pretty happy with myself.



there's the rub. something is definatly wrong with the lens.

nail focus on one of these babies and the image just screams at you through the viewfinder.

will KEH fix it for you?

KEH has 14 day returns and 6 month warranty. I'm not worried, but has made question my how strong my manual focus kung fu is. Your post is making me feel better. I suppose if I can find focus with the 200 f/4 AIS micro at minimum focusing distance with about 6 inches worth of extension tubes on it then I should stop worrying.

Truthfully on one had I'm disappointed because not only is the glass extremely clean but the lens itself has fewer dings in it than my 300 f/2.8. On the other hand it is missing the gold '600mm f/4 ED-IF' ego plate, and I was really looking forward to that.

I'll phone them tomorrow, I'm sure they'll let me exchange it so long as they have another in stock (and according to the site they do).

 

[sambo.]

wow hdavid, i never knew that!

mind you, the 600/4 i used came out of the pool glass cupboard at Fairfax in Sydney.

 

[hdavid]

I had the same problem - thought it was a bum lens. Not the case. The front element is rotatable - and it is made to focus the lens - at infinity, or at least get it in line. I just hope you don't have any goop or anything sticky - as mine rotated quite easily using two finger nails - you will see the small grooves on the front of the element - one on each side.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Whoa - Hold it - Whoa....... Your lens is not at fault......... Here is why.

The 600mm F4 AIS has a rotatable front element. It is used to fine-tune-focus the entire lens due to temperature variations that may occur - as there is a lot of metal and glass involved. I bought Nikkor AIS's 600mm F4 and found this out myself.

Here is how to focus/fix it.......

Mount lens on tripod with camera. Focus as best you can at the infinity mark - or something that is at infinity. Blurry? Great!

Now go stand in front of the lens. You will see at the edges of the glass - a ring that has two opposing notches. One on one side of the lens - one on the other. With your finger nails - put them in the notches and ROTATE the front lens element. It will spin in either direction - unless it is rotated fully in - or out. Rotate 90 degress and check focus. Not good enough but better - then rotate another 90 degrees. Continue fiddling until the lens can be focused at infinity and you get a super sharp image. The lens will focus past infinity - to again - allow for temperature changes / expansion / contraction.

If you can find an old owners manual for the 600mm F4 - this procedure should be documented/shown. It worked great on mine - and depending on the outside temperature - is the first thing I do to "set" my lens up.

Try this before you send anything back. Someone was probably fooling with the front element and has either backed it fully out - or fully in - resulting in crappy infinity focusing.

Let us know if this fixes the problem.


Regards,

David

Whoa, thanks. I see the notches but I can't get it to turn. But it sounds like I can fix the problem. How difficult should it be to get it to turn?

Thanks a million. What a great piece of knowledge to have, as I'm sure there aren't very many 600 f4 AIS manuals out there anymore.

 

[hdavid]

You may have to slowly go back and forth - as it is probably stuck. It is not hard to move - like a large 95mm filter ring. Push too hard or at an angle - it won't budge - but nudge it evenly, you should be OK. Make sure that it is not stuck with any crap around the edges - if it is at either end of travel - try the other way? Best as I can describe it. If I remember - you should be able to get at least 2 or 3 full rotations - for full adjustment.

 

[truronion]

Great advice gleaned here from you guys to solve the problem I am impressed.

 

[SteveK]

I used to have a 600AIS, and shot for N.Geographic with it in the early 80's. I was working on one assignment when one of the other photographers was fired for failure to produce the quality of work needed. The photo editor decided to fill in, and borrowed a 600 from the equipment cache at NGS. That editor had complained to me that I was getting only about 60% success (I did have good solid support, but also had very soft spongy tundra and high winds in some of the locations I worked). I replied to the editor that 60% was good. Well, after he went out in the field, and actually used a 600, he called me to ask how I did so well, as his shots were mostly bad. Quite simply, it takes time to master the technique to successfully shoot with really long glass.