iOne Display 2 calibration flop - what next?

[TweedleDum]

I have no idea what I'm doing, other than trying to correct a problem with dark and oversaturated prints. I've been working around the dark print problem for a long time by guessing at increased image brightness levels in CS2 . . . an unsatisfying solution at best.

Anyway, I'm using Win Xp, SP2, a Dell 2001FP monitor w/ nVidia GeForce 6800 card, and an Epson R800. In advanced mode, I followed advice from Iliah in another post and set the gamma and white point targets to monitor native. I tried setting the brightness to 85 cd/m^2, but the 2001FP will adjust no lower than 102 cd/m^2. Don't know if it's important, but the contrast slider is grayed out on the monitor OSD, so I was unable to set this with hardware. I also could not find an option to select LUT or icc4 specification.

The resulting profile was set to default, but the display looks more or less unchanged. The calibration also had no effect whatever on the difference between prints and the screen display in Photoshop.

Did I just buy an expensive paperweight, or am I merely incompetent? Suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Iliah]

Please e-mail me the resulting monitor profile, your printer profile, and printer driver settings you use - screen captures of driver dialogues will be fine.

 

[Neige]

I'd be interested in the results, too. I just got a Spyder2 Express, calibrated my monitor, downloaded the printer profile for my local Costco and..... my photos look consistently ~1EV darker than when I was eyeballing them.

 

[Iliah]

I'd be interested in the results, too. I just got a Spyder2 Express, calibrated my monitor, downloaded the printer profile for my local Costco and..... my photos look consistently ~1EV darker than when I was eyeballing them.

Either you calibrated your monitor to be too bright (keep white at least below 100 cd/m^2), or printer profile is wrong by a comfortable margin :biggrin: I think it is calibration being too bright.

 

[Electromen]

I don't have an eye one, I use a Spyder. I've heard eye one is better.

I DO have an Epson R800 and can help with it.
I recently had the same 8 x 10 photo printed by:

1. Mpix- a very good quality lab
2. WHCC - White House Custom Color- used by many wedding photogs for album prints
3. Epson R800 and Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl paper

When looking at all three side by side, not one person yet has been able to see a difference and pick out the Epson print.

My prints also match my monitors.

Which paper are you using?

Greg

 

[TweedleDum]

Please e-mail me the resulting monitor profile, your printer profile, and printer driver settings you use - screen captures of driver dialogues will be fine.

Email and private message sent.

 

[TweedleDum]

. . . My prints also match my monitors.
Greg

An enviable position to be in! :smile:

. . . Which paper are you using?
Greg

About 80% Epson Premium Luster, 15% Epson Premium Glossy, and 5% "other".

Choice of paper has no effect on the brightness mismatch.

 

[Electromen]

I'm using a Mac, since your're on Windows the steps are a little different, but very similar.

The following directions are for Mac. and PS CS2
Windows directions are further down this page.

________________________________________________________________

Mac

1. Download Epson ICC profiles for Epson paper here:

Epson ICC profile for Epson R800


2. After download double click it to run the installer

3. If Photoshop was open - close it

4. Open Photoshop

5. Open a photo to print.

6. Insert Premium Luster paper into printer

7. Print with Preview-use page setup as you nomally would

8. Color Handling = Let Photoshop Determine Colors

9. Printer Profile = SPR800 PremLustr BstPhoto R1

10. Rendering Intent = Relative Colormetric

11. Check Black Point Compensation

12. Print

13. Printer = Stylus Photo R800

14. Print settings

a. Media Type = Premium Luster Photo Paper

b. Color = Color

c. Advanced Mode

d. Print Quality = Best Photo

e. High Speed = not checked

f. Finest Detail = checked

g. Gloss Optimizer = On

15. Print

________________________________________________________________

Windows

1. Download Epson ICC profiles for Epson paper here:

Epson ICC profile for Epson R800


2. After download double click it to run the installer

3. If Photoshop was open - close it

4. Open Photoshop

5. Open a photo to print.

6. Insert Premium Luster paper into printer

7. Print with Preview-use page setup as you nomally would

8. Click "Show more Options"

9. Select "Color Management"

10. Profile = SPR800 PremLustr BstPhoto R1 (or something similar to this, this is what is says on a Mac)

11. Intent = Relative Colormetric

12. Use Black Point Compensation = checked

13. Print > Properties

14. Media Type = Premium Semigloss Photo paper and Best Photo

15. click Advanced

16. Color Management = ICM

17. No Color Management = checked

18. Gloss = checked

19. High Speed = not checked

20. OK

 

[Electromen]

A print using the above directions and ICC profile should result in a photo that is correctly profiled with color and brightness dead on.

If this does no match your monitor, work on calibrating your monitor.

ICC profiles must be for your particular printer and paper.
For each new paper a new ICC profile must be used.

When calibrating your monitor, turn off overhead lights and closed windows blinds.
Make sure the monitor is set to factory defaults before you begin.

Here's a good test:
1. Order an 8 x 10 from mpix.com and compare it to your monitor and your Epson print.

2. When you order form mpix, ask them for a free calibraion kit.
Do this by emailing them and asking for a calibration kit.
This is a printed photo and the same image on CD.
Bring up the image on CD and hold their calibration photo beside the monitor.
They should match

note: don't bother with their calbibration instructions-use your eye one.
just use mpix to compare

If anyone notices a mistake in these directions, please post them and I'll edit the post.

 

[TweedleDum]

I'm using a Mac, since your're on Windows the steps are a little different, but very similar.

*snip*

Windows

1. Download Epson ICC profiles for Epson paper here:

Epson ICC profile for Epson R800


2. After download double click it to run the installer

3. If Photoshop was open - close it

4. Open Photoshop

5. Open a photo to print.

6. Insert Premium Luster paper into printer

7. Print with Preview-use page setup as you nomally would

8. Click "Show more Options"

9. Select "Color Management"

10. Profile = SPR800 PremLustr BstPhoto R1 (or something similar to this, this is what is says on a Mac)

11. Intent = Relative Colormetric

12. Use Black Point Compensation = checked

13. Print > Properties

14. Media Type = Premium Semigloss Photo paper and Best Photo

15. click Advanced

16. Color Management = ICM

17. No Color Management = checked

18. Gloss = checked

19. High Speed = not checked

20. OK

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the same as my procedure. OK, except for 2 "minor" (LOL) differences:

a. Iliah pointed out that I had Adobe RGB (1998) selected for my Printer Profile. :frown: Schtooooopid!! I have no idea why or how that happened, or how long I've been printing that way.

b. I've been using perceptual for Rendering Intent. Do you get better results using Relative Colorimetric?

There's one other problem with my calibration procedure which I'll describe for others who might experience it:

My monitor is a Dell 2001FP. It is not possible to achieve Iliah's recommended brightness target (85 cd/m^2) with the monitor OSD brightness slider. I set mine to zero during calibration and ended up at about 102 cd/m^2. In addition, contrast is not adjustable with the monitor's OSD, so I skipped this step during initial calibration. I'm doing another calibration today using the video card controls vice the OSD, which I expect will solve these shortcomings.

The cool thing about all of this is that I never have a problem with boredom. :smile:

 

[Electromen]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the same as my procedure. OK, except for 2 "minor" (LOL) differences:

a. Iliah pointed out that I had Adobe RGB (1998) selected for my Printer Profile. :frown: Schtooooopid!! I have no idea why or how that happened, or how long I've been printing that way.

b. I've been using perceptual for Rendering Intent. Do you get better results using Relative Colorimetric?

Those two settings make a huge difference and may be the source of the problem.

 

[Iliah]

Profiles are created with perceptual intent, that is the default. Sometimes relative colorimetric gives better results for some images. Both ways, you guys have wrong workflow For serious quality *nobody* allows any auto conversions to run. You convert yourself, using soft proofing rather then allow Photoshop to convert for you.

 

[Electromen]

Profiles are created with perceptual intent, that is the default. Sometimes relative colorimetric gives better results for some images. Both ways, you guys have wrong workflow For serious quality *nobody* allows any auto conversions to run. You convert yourself, using soft proofing rather then allow Photoshop to convert for you.

Like I mentioned my R800 prints with Ilford paper match both Mpix prints, WHCC prints and my monitors

No one yet can pick out the R800.

Even if I'm wrong, I'm happy.
Maybe ignorance IS bliss.

 

[Iliah]

> my R800 prints with Ilford paper match both Mpix prints, WHCC prints and my monitors

Impossible. Images on monitor can't match prints.

> No one yet can pick out the R800.

Let me try

> Maybe ignorance IS bliss

Yes, we tell so our children each and every day. Please do not study, do not improve, have fun instead and enjoy bliss.

Seriously though, consider using soft proofing. It was one of the major improvements in Photoshop. Andrew Rodney has several nice articles on it online.

 

[Electromen]

I appreciate everything you're saying Iliah. It's taken about 18 months to get the monitors and printer to this point.

The monitors are 23" Apple Cinema HD, calibrated with Spyder2 Pro.

All I'm doing is following Ilford's instructions for printing.
Ilford does say that a custom profile is better, but I'm satisfied with the results I'm getting.

Let's get back to helping TweedleDum solve his problem.

thanks, Greg

 

[Iliah]

> Let's get back to helping TweedleDum solve his problem.

Softproofing is part of it. If he would use it, the AdobeRGB used instead of printer profile would be obvious.

 

[Electromen]

> Let's get back to helping TweedleDum solve his problem.

Softproofing is part of it. If he would use it, the AdobeRGB used instead of printer profile would be obvious.

Exactly how do you soft proof? I've never done it.

Edit: Do you mean in PS > View > Proof Setup > Custom > Choose the printer profile?
I do that.

 

[TweedleDum]

> Let's get back to helping TweedleDum solve his problem.

. . . the AdobeRGB used instead of printer profile would be obvious.

OK guys, I feel like an imbecile for not seeing that. Lighten up a little, I can't do everything right . . . but I am an expert with a barbecue grill. :biggrin:

 

[Iliah]

> Do you mean in PS > View > Proof Setup > Custom > Choose the printer profile?

It is only the first stage of the setup for softproofing.

First, you duplicate the image and convert the duplicate to 16-bit, then to Lab color space. At that softproofing dialogue you set the black point compensation, simulate ink black and paper white, and choose the rendering intent. You can switch between different intents to see which gives better initial approximation to the original image. After exiting from that dialogue you switch on the gamut warning, establish adjustment layers, and make any corrections needed to match the original image to the copy you are proofing. When you are done with that, you convert the image to printer profile using same intent as you used for softproofing, leave the image in 16-bit, and use "print with preview" with "no color management"

 

[Electromen]

OK guys, I feel like an imbecile for not seeing that. Lighten up a little, I can't do everything right . . . but I am an expert with a barbecue grill. :biggrin:

You're not an imbecile, heck I couldn't even spell it.
I interested to see if your printing is better once you try it with the exact settings. Let us know.