*Italy and Coronavirus - READ IT*

That is a good point that the statistics are only going by the actual number of cases reported and treated...... How about the people who start sneezing or coughing, whatever, and simply deal with it at home and because they are retired or unemployed are not expected at a workplace or somewhere anyway so just quietly go through whatever miseries the temporary illness brings without bothering to see a doctor (some people who may or may not have insurance do not actually have a primary physician or internist or whatever). They tend to choose to only go for medical treatment at an ER or "Doc-in-the-Box" walk-in clinic when their symptoms really seriously begin to bother them..... Seems to me that a lot of potential cases could be lost to the statistics this way, with those folks staying at home dealing with their symptoms, especially if they are relatively mild, and not seeking medical care at all.
 

NCV

Joined
Jan 31, 2019
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172
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Italy
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Nigel
I think masks do have a purpose, yet not what you may think of.
Masks prevent others from having your viruses spat straight in their face, rather than preventing you from single viruses floating in the air - unless they are FFP3 that is the type used by medical equipes.
@rick_reno uhm.. being in Venice and having no people around is unlikely.. usually it's a very crowded place - as well as Florence (less so for Bologna) - but with this particular situation your friend might be surrounded by crowds of scared and masked Japanese tourists ( :D ) who knows? Actually museums and churches have been closed in many regions and so are all events so anyone visiting Italy now could report like from being, say, in North Korea where apparently no one is around during the day. For sure less people around means we'll have better air for a while without forcing traffic limitations. Basically, just like in China, officials say "stay home don't exit unless you work for some emergency service / public utility"
On Sunday I was hoping to find zero crowds thanks to the fear of this virus at the quite famous Basilica di San Benedetto Po near Mantua.

I managed to come across another virus that is always around; the "No photography allowed" one, when I tried to photograph the interior.
 
Joined
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Ireland
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(Mike) Michael Skerritt.
The first case in Ireland was reported this morning on the news. I person in Northern Ireland traveled from Northern Italy and landed in Dublin and then traveled on to Northern Ireland. We are all worried in Southern Ireland now as god only knows where all the other passengers on the plane were and are heading to?
Regards.
Mike
 

JPS

Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
9,269
Location
North-East of Brazil
Some good news, France announced that they no longer have any patient infected with the virus. Only 1 passed away, all recovered.
From today's Liberation newspaper:
Alors que l'épidémie de coronavirus progresse en Europe, voici une bonne nouvelle en France. Le dernier patient qui était hospitalisé en France après avoir été infecté par la pneumonie virale est «guéri» et «a pu rentrer chez lui», a indiqué lundi soir le ministre de la Santé Olivier Véran. Ce dernier patient est l'un des six Britanniques (dont un enfant) contaminés par un compatriote de retour de Singapour qu'ils avaient côtoyé dans un chalet des Contamines-Montjoie (Haute-Savoie) fin janvier.

«Ce soir, il n'y a plus aucun malade hospitalisé en France, le dernier hospitalisé à Lyon est guéri, il n'est plus contagieux et a pu rentrer chez lui», a indiqué Olivier Véran lors de la conférence de presse quotidienne du ministère. «Il n'y a pas de malade identifié ce soir sur le territoire national» et «il n'y a ce soir pas de circulation du virus sur le territoire national», a-t-il poursuivi en précisant que la stratégie des autorités pour empêcher la propagation du virus était «adaptable et révisable à tout moment». Jusqu'à présent, douze cas d'infection au nouveau coronavirus ont été avérés dans l'Hexagone depuis fin janvier. Onze personnes ont été guéries et un patient, un touriste chinois de 80 ans, est décédé le 14 février.
For once, I LOVE the french humour 😂 ! That reminds me the time of Chernobil.... when they said that the poisoned clouds would stop before reaching the french border 😂🤣😂 !!
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
233
The media makes this so much worse. The flu kills thousands every year but only about 50 percent get the flu shot I think. Just chill .
 
Joined
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'Flu shots were mentioned:

My daughter and son-in-law dutifully received inoculations — as they do every year.

I did not (becauseI I never bother with them).

I do my best to keep away from all doctors (except at dinner parties); or in dire emergencies; or to get a prescription for anti-malarial tablets.

Both my daughter and son-in -law got 'flu: I did not.

It may not be so much a matter of immunisation as it seems to be a matter of Luck?

I just hope my luck lasts because I am thinking of going to Brazil and the Amazon in May.
 
Joined
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London
'Flu shots were mentioned:

My daughter and son-in-law dutifully received inoculations — as they do every year.

I did not (becauseI I never bother with them).

I do my best to keep away from all doctors (except at dinner parties); or in dire emergencies; or to get a prescription for anti-malarial tablets.

Both my daughter and son-in -law got 'flu: I did not.

It may not be so much a matter of immunisation as it seems to be a matter of Luck?

I just hope my luck lasts because I am thinking of going to Brazil and the Amazon in May.
The vaccin does not necessarily cover all types of flu. Unfortunately.
Here in the UK the flu vaccine is free for many people so not a problem.
Personally I get all my immunisations updated before I travel to certain places in the world, free or not.
Some travel insurances would not offer full cover if these preventive steps were not taken.

At the moment with the corona virus in some EU countries employees can refuse to go to the office or travel if there is a risk to their health and welfare.
For instance a company who asks a staff member to go on a business trip to Milan would not be able to force an employee to do so, and could even be in serious trouble.
Not all countries have these rules in place though.
 
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There are different kinds of flu viruses and the success of the inoculations varies according to the type of virus. Even if someone gets the flu after being vaccinated, the severity of the symptoms is generally less than if they had not been inoculated.

I question the accuracy of the self-made diagnoses of the flu and cold; my experience is that when somebody says they have the flu, all too often their illness hasn't been diagnosed by the doctor.
 
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I do my best to keep away from all doctors (except at dinner parties)
With all due respect, I remember when you almost died because of that attitude. Fortunately, your daughter took you to the hospital, where they told you that if she had waited until the next day or so, you might have died. You admitted later that having that English stiff upper lip when it comes to toughing out an illness sometimes is not a good thing.
 
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In that particular case, no doctor would have discovered that I had contracted a serious bacterial infection (e-coli) until after I was dead!

Any blood-tests would have still been in the lab (as indeed the hospital's tests were!) for some three or four days.

A sudden run to the ER when the illness hit; and a massive intravenous inflow of a very strong wide-spectrum anti-biotic saved the day because no-one at the hospital had any idea what they might be treating.
Check-up visits to a GP could not have predicted, prevented or diagnosed that infection in time.

I stand by my philosophy of pursuing every possible adventure, having enormous fun at every opportunity; eating and drinking anything I feel like; paying no attention to the time of day or of night; and generally paying scant attention to the state of my personal health.
 
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Moscow, Idaho
In that particular case, no doctor would have discovered that I had contracted a serious bacterial infection (e-coli) until after I was dead!

Any blood-tests would have still been in the lab (as indeed the hospital's tests were!) for some three or four days.

A sudden run to the ER when the illness hit; and a massive intravenous inflow of a very strong wide-spectrum anti-biotic saved the day because no-one at the hospital had any idea what they might be treating.
Check-up visits to a GP could not have predicted, prevented or diagnosed that infection in time.

I stand by my philosophy of pursuing every possible adventure, having enormous fun at every opportunity; eating and drinking anything I feel like; paying no attention to the time of day or of night; and generally paying scant attention to the state of my personal health.
It's a good thing that I never have and never plan to travel with you! :eek:
My dad was a tropical medicine specialist/epidemiologist, as was his father (albeit in the very early days of the specialization), and my sister-in-law continues that dedication today in India. All three of them would probably have you hung, drawn and quartered before breakfast. Controlling disease is not about you but about the collective.
 
When I was a child, I spent a lot more time in doctors' offices and hospitals than I liked, and as a result, as an adult I tend to be someone who does not rush to the doctor or the ER or the "doc-in-box" walk-in clinic unless it is something fairly serious and I know treatment beyond "wait-and-see" is necessary. A sprained ankle? Off to the ER for an X-Ray after a while if there is the possibility of a fracture rather than just a sprain. A couple of days of sneezing/blowing/coughing/sore throat? I stay home, take an OTC dose or two and sure enough, usually, eventually in a few days it indeed does clear up. Coughing and coughing and coughing over an extended period of time? Time to head to the doctor, as it's more than likely something like bronchitis or possibly incipient pneumonia, and in either case, more attention to definitive diagnosis and genuine treatment is needed. It's all common sense and knowing one's own body but also knowing when it is time to seek out professional help and appropriate treatment......
 
Joined
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Messages
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When I was a child, I spent a lot more time in doctors' offices and hospitals than I liked, and as a result, as an adult I tend to be someone who does not rush to the doctor or the ER or the "doc-in-box" walk-in clinic unless it is something fairly serious and I know treatment beyond "wait-and-see" is necessary. A sprained ankle? Off to the ER for an X-Ray after a while if there is the possibility of a fracture rather than just a sprain. A couple of days of sneezing/blowing/coughing/sore throat? I stay home, take an OTC dose or two and sure enough, usually, eventually in a few days it indeed does clear up. Coughing and coughing and coughing over an extended period of time? Time to head to the doctor, as it's more than likely something like bronchitis or possibly incipient pneumonia, and in either case, more attention to definitive diagnosis and genuine treatment is needed. It's all common sense and knowing one's own body but also knowing when it is time to seek out professional help and appropriate treatment......
I'm with you. Given my pedigree, I am a believer in minimalism. I had my annual comprehensive physical last week and my physician was amazed that at 70 I took no prescription medications on a regular basis. My wife and I have controlled blood sugar, blood pressure and cholesterol by diet and exercise. But I have had all my preventative inoculations etc., and do practice safe social/communal hygiene: hand washing, self-imposed "quarantine" avoidance of bravado, etc., etc. and red wine consumption. In other words, I am responsible not only for my own health but also for my neighbors and friends too (and vice versa).
 
Joined
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Northern VA suburb of Washington, DC
In that particular case, no doctor would have discovered that I had contracted a serious bacterial infection (e-coli) until after I was dead!

Any blood-tests would have still been in the lab (as indeed the hospital's tests were!) for some three or four days.

A sudden run to the ER when the illness hit; and a massive intravenous inflow of a very strong wide-spectrum anti-biotic saved the day because no-one at the hospital had any idea what they might be treating.
Check-up visits to a GP could not have predicted, prevented or diagnosed that infection in time.

I stand by my philosophy of pursuing every possible adventure, having enormous fun at every opportunity; eating and drinking anything I feel like; paying no attention to the time of day or of night; and generally paying scant attention to the state of my personal health.
You're apparently missing the point, Ann, that your daughter saved your life because, by your own account, you refused to go to the doctor. She drove to your home, saw your physical condition, and rushed you to the hospital. If she hadn't done that, by your own account, you would have died. You can "pay scant attention to the state of your personal health," but fortunately for you, your daughter took care of you when by your own admission you wouldn't take care of yourself.

This is my last post about your situation when you nearly brought death upon yourself by making decisions, which shortly after, you openly explained were imprudent. I'm baffled that you're now defending your decisions as if you would agreeably make them again in the same situation.
 
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