Lack of Z lenses - Nikon lets have an update please

[ac12]

Nikon has to get the pro lens out fast/first, to get the pros converted, so the f/2.8 lenses makes sense.
Then they can do the f/4 lenses. It did take both Nikon and Canon a while to bring out the f/4 zooms, which we who don't want to lug a lot of weight prefer.

 

[MikEm13]

The only thing that worry's me some when Nikon comes out with an f4 lens first they have to be sure that it's an excellent lens. If they do the f2.8 first I think they won't worry about it being as sharp as the 2.8. Thats just my opinion and I hope Im proven wrong.

 

[JeeperDon]

Nikon has to get the pro lens out fast/first, to get the pros converted, so the f/2.8 lenses makes sense. Then they can do the f/4 lenses.

I'm new to Nikon, don't know there business model. Are we saying doing two lenses at once is not possible at Nikon? ...and also saying the price-is-no-object pro market gets preference to the larger I-need-to-buy-groceries-too consumer market? ?

 

[ac12]

I'm new to Nikon, don't know there business model. Are we saying doing two lenses at once is not possible at Nikon? ...and also saying the price-is-no-object pro market gets preference to the larger I-need-to-buy-groceries-too consumer market? ?

Several lenses at once IS possible.
But Nikon also has to make a lot of other lenses (ALL their current lenses), and there is a finite R&D and manufacturing capacity. The same engineering team that designs the 24-70/4 might be designing the 24-70/2.8. Similar with the 70-200/2.8 and 70-200/4. So they have to plan and decide what lenses can be produced when.

Yes, I would say the PRO market comes first.
Nikon cannot afford to give up any market share in the pro market to Canon and Sony. The pro market is where they have visibility to the public. Nikon does not want any more white lenses out there.
The pro market also gives Nikon (and Canon) the public appearance of high quality, which then is used to market to the consumers.
The pro market can also afford to pay for the R&D cost of those lenses, whereas the consumer market is more price sensitive.

That is the same discussion that some of the Olympus guys are having with the upcoming EM5-mk3.​

They want the high tech features that are not yet in the pro cameras, but in a much lower cost mid-level camera.​

 

[davidzvi]

The only thing that worry's me some when Nikon comes out with an f4 lens first they have to be sure that it's an excellent lens. If they do the f2.8 first I think they won't worry about it being as sharp as the 2.8. Thats just my opinion and I hope Im proven wrong.

Have you tried the current F-mount f/4? That was released between the 2nd and 3rd? version of the f/2.8. It's had fewer "issues" than either of the first 2 versions of the f/2.8 (1st - vignetting on FX, 2nd focus breathing).

I'm new to Nikon, don't know there business model. Are we saying doing two lenses at once is not possible at Nikon? ...and also saying the price-is-no-object pro market gets preference to the larger I-need-to-buy-groceries-too consumer market? ?

Yes they can do more than one at a time, I'm sure they ARE doing more than one now. But different lenses take different lengths of time to develop. Do you hold them all until all are ready?

Do the Pro come first? Even hear the old saying about race cars? Win on Sunday, sell on Monday?

 

[Martin Norden]

To my mind Nikon have gone astray, their road map is flawed and the wrong mix of lenses have been released. I'm not bothered whether they release Pro or non pro lenses all I am looking for is a better mix than what is currently available, yes there is a 70-200/f2.8 due this year, whether it is delivered this year remains to be seen. Without doubt the 70-200/f2.8 will be an expensive lens so hope everyone's piggy bank is all topped up.

But why do we have to have Pro lenses first, why not normal lenses, have pro's adopted the Z range, from the comments on forums, YT et al, the pro's weren't touching the Z cameras with the proverbial barge pole, the D5, D850 or D500 were still the Pro's choice because of <insert reason> which the Z couldn't do. Has that changed?

Nikon's inability to provide updates on the road map since January for me is poor, by now we should know when the next lenses are due, we should know which lenses are coming in 2020 after those already announced.

Sony a million miles ahead of Nikon & Canon, the new boy in Panasonic IMHO is now ahead of both Nikon and Canon because it has a better native lens range.

Yes adapters can play a part but this makes a small compact prime look oversized, so yes they work but they are a faff and only really as a temporary fix not a permanent solution.

 

[ac12]

Quote

To my mind Nikon have gone astray, their road map is flawed and the wrong mix of lenses have been released. I'm not bothered whether they release Pro or non pro lenses all I am looking for is a better mix than what is currently available,​

​

But why do we have to have Pro lenses first, why not normal lenses, ​

Your two statements appear to contradict each other.
Or do you mean Pro and Non-pro is fine, but YOU want the non-pro lenses first?

Quote

But why do we have to have Pro lenses first, why not normal lenses,​

​

Did you even look at the roadmap?
2018 - All three lenses are NON-pro lenses.
The pro lenses are not on the roadmap till 2019.

As for the pro lenses
Nikon WANTS the pros to adopt the Z system. And they need the lenses for that.
To do otherwise is to concede the pro race to Canon.
Nikon lost that race once before, they can't afford to loose it again.

As for the mix of lenses.
Well "someone" figured it out.
But the f/0.95 ???? Someone things it is important.

Quote

Yes adapters can play a part but this makes a small compact prime look oversized, so yes they work but they are a faff and only really as a temporary fix not a permanent solution. ​

Who said the adapter was a permanent solution?
The adapters are a temporary bridge, until the Z system lens landscape is fleshed out.
Until the Z system lens landscape is fleshed out, Nikon Z users will have to use F lenses via the FTZ adapter. Currently, if you want a 70-200/2.8, you HAVE TO use a F lens on a FTZ adapter, there is no Z lens alternative. Same with most of the other F lenses.
The other thing that the FTZ adapter does is that is eases the transition cost for a current Nikon user. They can still use their F lenses as they are purchasing Z system lenses, one or two at a time. Vs. having to purchase the entire kit of lenses at once, $$$$$

Canon has the same problem, and has a similar EF to R adpater for their mirrorless camera, for the same reason.

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[Pa]

All the lenses in the roadmap are "S" lenses, which we have been told means "Special" (in some sense). Might there be some non-S lenses in the works that are not included in the roadmap?

 

[ac12]

All the lenses in the roadmap are "S" lenses, which we have been told means "Special" (in some sense). Might there be some non-S lenses in the works that are not included in the roadmap?

I will take a guess that the Non-S "might" be the lower end consumer grade lenses.

 

[Palouse]

I'll just continue to believe that S differentiates them from the F line. Time will tell, and in the meantime I will continue to enjoy my D, Z, F and S Nikon tools!

 

[warth man]

Personally...… I rather fancy a Leica Q.

 

[MikEm13]

I didn't see that on the roadmap

 

[warth man]

I didn't see that on the roadmap

True enough. I had / have the wrong map.

 

[Jonathan F/2]

If it's any consolation, when I was in Tokyo I didn't feel like mirrorless was overwhelmingly popular there. For the most part, people were content using older DSLRs or phone cameras like most places in the world!

 

[Pa]

I'll just continue to believe that S differentiates them from the F line. Time will tell, and in the meantime I will continue to enjoy my D, Z, F and S Nikon tools!

Thom Hogan says:

Yet there's that "S" in the lens designation. Nikon's been saying that stands for "superior," or a high end lens specification (as opposed to a lesser consumer specification like the 24-85mm has).

 

[Palouse]

Thom Hogan says:

Yet there's that "S" in the lens designation. Nikon's been saying that stands for "superior," or a high end lens specification (as opposed to a lesser consumer specification like the 24-85mm has).

I know, and I've seen Nikon's flowery prose too, and from the folks at Photography Life--but . . . . I'm stubbornly sticking with my head in the sand position!
I just hope Nikon doesn't call the "consumer" the Z line and confuse the crap out of us forever. Remember the Series E lenses? http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/emfgfg20/eserieslenses/index.htm

 

[Martin Norden]

Quote

To my mind Nikon have gone astray, their road map is flawed and the wrong mix of lenses have been released. I'm not bothered whether they release Pro or non pro lenses all I am looking for is a better mix than what is currently available,​

​

But why do we have to have Pro lenses first, why not normal lenses, ​

Your two statements appear to contradict each other.
Or do you mean Pro and Non-pro is fine, but YOU want the non-pro lenses first?

Quote

But why do we have to have Pro lenses first, why not normal lenses,​

​

Did you even look at the roadmap?
2018 - All three lenses are NON-pro lenses.
The pro lenses are not on the roadmap till 2019.

As for the pro lenses
Nikon WANTS the pros to adopt the Z system. And they need the lenses for that.
To do otherwise is to concede the pro race to Canon.
Nikon lost that race once before, they can't afford to loose it again.

As for the mix of lenses.
Well "someone" figured it out.
But the f/0.95 ???? Someone things it is important.

Quote

Yes adapters can play a part but this makes a small compact prime look oversized, so yes they work but they are a faff and only really as a temporary fix not a permanent solution. ​

Who said the adapter was a permanent solution?
The adapters are a temporary bridge, until the Z system lens landscape is fleshed out.
Until the Z system lens landscape is fleshed out, Nikon Z users will have to use F lenses via the FTZ adapter. Currently, if you want a 70-200/2.8, you HAVE TO use a F lens on a FTZ adapter, there is no Z lens alternative. Same with most of the other F lenses.
The other thing that the FTZ adapter does is that is eases the transition cost for a current Nikon user. They can still use their F lenses as they are purchasing Z system lenses, one or two at a time. Vs. having to purchase the entire kit of lenses at once, $$$$$

Canon has the same problem, and has a similar EF to R adpater for their mirrorless camera, for the same reason.


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My issue is the lack of lenses, why issue a pro 24-70 when there is already a 24-70, why not a 70-200 pro or non pro first? Why when you have three lenses covering 24mm launch a 24mm prime, why not an 85mm and increase the range?

There have been no updates from Nikon on the lens road map (yes I have looked at it) since the beginning of the year, why not?

I have been using Nikon for years, my first camera was a FA which I still have, so am passionate about Nikon, I know it takes time to build a system but the lack of direction on the lens front and the lack of communication concerns me.

If Nikon wanted pro's to adopt the Z system why not launch a 24-70/f2.8 at the launch, why go with non pro lenses?

If Nikon is not careful the pro's they want will have exited stage left to Sony, with the A7Riv announced, a pretty good lens set up in place, a pro could easily swap systems, many have.

The roadmap on the UK website states that the 24mm is due this year, your roadmap states next year, the 20mm is the opposite way round, who is right? I hope that your map is right as that means I can get the 20mm this year

All I want is for Nikon to succeed with the Z system, I want native lenses on my camera not F mount via an adapter, others may be happy with the FTZ set-up that's fine and I have no issues with that but for me I want to move away from having to use an adapter.

I just believe that Nikon could be more pro active and keep communication flowing, tell us when a lens is coming out, Q1 or Q2 or Q3 or Q4, they must know this information so why not publish it?

Since the two lens launches at the turn of the year all we have had on the hardware side is silence, 6 months of nothing, is that what we want?

 

[vinman]

Maybe they are working on a higher end mirrorless body and want the pro lenses already available when they release it.

I’d like to think that’s the case. With an Olympics on the horizon, Nikon will need to have something on the sidelines to keep the Z series relevant for professional shooters. Certainly it would be the ideal timeframe to have a D5/D6 level mirrorless body along with at least one fast super-tele (at least a 300/2.8).

I may not do a swap immediately, but I’m pretty excited to see what the Z series 70-200/2.8 has to offer. My image count per lens is currently skewed since I photographed swim meets over the first half of Summer, but that lens shoulders around half my image making. Eliminating the FTZ would be welcome in that combination.

 

[ac12]

My issue is the lack of lenses, why issue a pro 24-70 when there is already a 24-70, why not a 70-200 pro or non pro first? Why when you have three lenses covering 24mm launch a 24mm prime, why not an 85mm and increase the range?

If Nikon wanted pro's to adopt the Z system why not launch a 24-70/f2.8 at the launch, why go with non pro lenses?

I am going to guess that the non-pro lenses were faster to develop and manufacture, so could be timed to match the release of the camera.
The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 would have to be released somewhat close together, as those are the two key pro lenses.

The roadmap on the UK website states that the 24mm is due this year, your roadmap states next year, the 20mm is the opposite way round, who is right? I hope that your map is right as that means I can get the 20mm this year

I would go with Nikon UK's schedule.
This is presuming that the distributor has the current schedule.

All I want is for Nikon to succeed with the Z system, I want native lenses on my camera not F mount via an adapter, others may be happy with the FTZ set-up that's fine and I have no issues with that but for me I want to move away from having to use an adapter.

As I said before, the FTZ adapter is a BRIDGE, until the Z system is fleshed out.
Until the Z lens landscape is fleshed out with the lenses that you want, you will have to use a F lens on the FTZ adapter. Once Nikon makes the Z lens, you can switch from your F lens to the Z lens. Until then you really have no choice for the Z camera.
The only other option is if/when Sigma/Tamron/etc. make Z lenses that you want.
Again, building a new lens landscape takes time, no one can release a full new lens landscape on day 1, while at the same time producing the current lenses.

I just believe that Nikon could be more pro active and keep communication flowing, tell us when a lens is coming out, Q1 or Q2 or Q3 or Q4, they must know this information so why not publish it?

They do not know when a lens is coming out until soon before it will come out.
They PLAN for when then want/expect it to come out.
But when it actually releases could be a very different date. And no one wants to publicly miss a date.

They have to R&D the lens, then transition to manufacturing.
And we all know that Murphey gets in the way of the best plans.

It is hard enough to just meet the year.

They publish what they need to publish for marketing reasons, no more.
Otherwise they don't, because they don't want to give Canon and Sony any information that they can then use against Nikon. Canon was very likely studying the Nikon roadmap as soon as it released, to see where they need change their lens roadmap to counter Nikon.
Would you tell your competitors when you were releasing what products, so that they can then plan to counter your products?

Since the two lens launches at the turn of the year all we have had on the hardware side is silence, 6 months of nothing, is that what we want?

That may not be what you want, but that's the way it works.
Olympus is no different, and Canon likely isn't either.

 

[MNglass]

I get the hand wringing but honestly most (if not all) of the modern F lenses perform as well (and most better - IBIS, lens calibration, focus peaking) on the Z platform. It's true that the F ecosystem doesn't take full advantage of the Z but it's not like there is a lack of finely performing lenses.