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Let the test begin! UPDATE>>>Crash

Discussion in 'Nikon DX DSLR Forum' started by SRA, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. SRA


    Jul 29, 2005
    Orem, Utah
    My good friend, hereby known as Bob, is the Dean of Engineering and Technology at my University and a professional photographer. I believe he currently owns in excess of 65 cameras of almost every type imaginable. I can't say enough about his credentials as space and subject interest doesn't permit.

    Anyway..., yesterday afternoon Bob calls me at my office across campus and asks if I have my camera with me. "Yes, it is with me" I reply, and he responds, "let's go do some testing." Bob is interested in purchasing a D2x, but is very fussy about every aspect of what a camera can do before plunking down 5k. As a great Nikon proponent he is immensely disappointed in the smaller sensor size that Nikon is using and sees it as Nikons forthcoming downfall. This coming from a man who owns, and I have seen them, at least 20 Nikon lenses and four Nikon pro digital bodies.

    The test was executed with two of Bob’s most recent purchases, a Canon EOS-1DS Mark II and his film version Canon EOS-1V HS. These coupled with my D2x were to shoot our University from the west side looking east at the mountains. The cameras captured images shot at a focal length of 32mm at f/7 with a 1/400 shutter speed. All the digital images were put on his CF card and are to be processed and printed by the imaging studio/lab of his school. Prints of about 20 x 30 inches are to be produced and then scrutinized for resolution. Bob is interested in seeing the resolution differences of his film verses digital camera along with my digital Nikon camera.

    I must say, I am not a little interested in the results. I feel he will be very objective in his evaluation and conclusions. Bob’s current supposition is that film will have better resolution than the digitals, but not by much. The comparison of the top Canon and Nikon is eagerly awaited. Bob feels that the Canon might have a slight edge due to sensor size but the Nikon might out-process it. I pressed Bob to get the results completed this weekend to help quell my ADHD curiosity. Alas I/we will have to wait as he has to write a book this weekend before his publishers get upset with him.

    One favorable comment I must make about the Canon EOS-1DS Mark II is the fabulous eye relief in the viewfinder. I love it. As one who is reaching the ‘45 year old’ focusing problem, it was comfortable and relaxing to be able to get inside the picture. And the field of view seems to be much larger than the D2x.

    My friend Bob has enjoyed his system so much, and I have so much respect for him, that on a couple of occasions I have mentioned, jokingly, but half seriously, that I should switch to his system. His response has always been a fervent "No". He has then followed up his rebuke by saying that he too wants to buy the D2x because of its many excellent qualities, too long to list here, that the Canon system has failed at.

    Anyway, when I get the results I will post them. They won't be a scientific as some of you would like. I will simply share his professional observations and my amateur rammelen interpretations. Please keep in mind that these comments are from an amateur interpreting a professional while trying to justify his own photographic equipping decisions. :D 

    This should be fun.

    P.S. Here is a view of the image we shot yesterday. (Not the actual image)
    Image Link
  2. Hey Scott,

    Thanks for the detailed account of the test you and Bob have done. Like you, I'll await the results with great interest.

    BTW, a very lovely vista to use for the test image!

    Best wishes,

  3. SRA


    Jul 29, 2005
    Orem, Utah
    Those are Bob's images on the web page.
  4. Gale


    Jan 26, 2005
    Viera Fl
    How very interesting. Looked at Bob's images and I will say they are quite nice.

    Look foward to the ending result and commentary.

    Not that I will ever have either of the Nikon or Canon systems mentioned :<(((

    Thank You
  5. MontyDog


    Jan 30, 2005
    #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax;
  6. I, too, anxiously await these results.

    Now, if you could just add a few things to the test:

    1. Small birds flying from a busy background to a clear blue sky
    2. ISO's to 3200
    3. Every lens you have access to, for focus issues at all f-stops...

    Oh, and while you are at it, make sure you do a fari bit between "full" and "hsc"....

    And not to forget, all the other "really important stuff" everybody else might want :wink:

    Now, see what happens when you offer a test? Some fool like me asks for the world :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So, give us your subjective opinions, and objective where possible, with what you are doing, it is all helpful to me in my own decision process.

    Thanks a bunch....
  7. gvk


    Jun 17, 2005
    Mystic, CT
    Re: Let the test begin!

    I am a bit surprised at the above statement from a professor of engineering. He must know that at this point in time the economics and yield of semiconductor lines makes the manufacturing cost of a large 24x36 mm sensor unattractive. These economics may change after the immense cost of the new generation of 300 mm wafer fabs is amortized, but at least for today we are still more interested in making a larger number of smaller chips from a given wafer size. Over more than 30 years of semiconductor technology development the minimum feature size that can be manufactured on a piece of silicon has been reduced by orders of magnitude from tens of micrometers to less than one tenth of a micrometer in today's most advanced chips. However, during the same period of time, the maximum practical chip size has only increased by 2 or 3X. It is not that it can't be done; the Canon full frame sensor is an existence proof. However, the economics dictates that Nikon's approach is currently more practical, and I believe that the performance of Sony's D2X sensor has justified their design judgment.

    I contributed to the design of the 11x11 mm chip that is shown in my avatar. We use many of these in a large parallel computer system. We could have put a lot more function into a chip with 2X the area, or about 15 mm on a side, and thus built a more powerful computer. A chip this size could easily be manufactured using today's semiconductor factories. However, the added cost of the bigger chip would have made a system such as the one we designed unaffordable.

    I am not arguing against a 35mm full frame sensor. If there is a large enough market for it I am sure that Nikon will eventually offer it in a camera. I simply believe that we are several years away from seeing it.

    PS In spite of my mild technical disagreement, I am also interested in seeing the results of these tests!
  8. SRA


    Jul 29, 2005
    Orem, Utah
    The CF card crashed!

    It appears that when we switched the CF card between the two cameras, read Canon and Nikon, it crashed all the data on the CF card. So we are going to reshoot the same image except using seperate cards but the same lens. My friend Bob has a set of Tamron lenses with adaptors for both cameras. I'll keep you updated.
  9. Re: The CF card crashed!

    It may not have actually hurt any data on the card. 2 things to check. The first is to look at the card via Windows Explorer and see if you see multiple folders. That may not do any good as the FAT may have been modified. The other is to try this:

    This is the best $30 worth of insurance I can think of.
  10. Re: The CF card crashed!

    Well, I just lost interest....

    I'd rather see a side by side imaging system comparision rather than a crippled, fantasy world, sensor only comparison.

    What's the point?

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