NC -vs- ACR game ...

Chris101 · Feb 16, 2005

Here are two versions of the same photo, one processed with Nikon Capture 4.2 and the other with Adobe Camera Raw 2.4. Can you guess which is which?

Program X:

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Program Y:

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If you want to guess, say what clues you used to come to your answer. I'll post the answer later. Also, if you have any helpful pointers for me, lI'd love it. By the way, this picture was sold (but I retained the right to display it.)

I also posted this game at DPR, but I'm gonna stay away from there for a week or so, cause it's sooo crazy!

F15Todd · Feb 16, 2005

Well I like the outcome of progam X better. And I'll guess that was the one done in NC. Just a guess, no reason behind it.

Rich Gibson · Feb 16, 2005

Why do I think of the Kobiyashi Maru gambit? Other than the color balance being way off on image y, image X has a lot more detail in the whites but a slight magenta cast. I'm going to assume you've done the same processes to both. I'll guess program x is NC 4.2

Rich

Flew · Feb 16, 2005

Rich Gibson said:
Why do I think of the Kobiyashi Maru gambit?
I'll guess program x is NC 4.2
Rich

OK Captain Kirk (I mean Rich....;-)), I agree with you.

Frank

PJohnP · Feb 16, 2005

Rich Gibson said:
Why do I think of the Kobiyashi Maru gambit? Other than the color balance being way off on image y, image X has a lot more detail in the whites but a slight magenta cast. I'm going to assume you've done the same processes to both. I'll guess program x is NC 4.2Rich

Rich :

I don't know what's scarier, that I agree with your judgment on the photo or that I immediately know the Kobiyashi Maru reference. But then, I'm old enough to have watched TOS on NBC in the 'sixties (and still like Trek).

John P.

Larry Gleason · Feb 16, 2005

I don't shoot RAW or use either program but the X program results are far better than the the Y program. Even if that wall really has a green tint to it. I also would not know which program is which. I just run my JPGs through good old PSP9.

Chris101 · Feb 16, 2005

Green huh? Well there's a big clue right there. Remember I'm color blind and need "help" getting color casts right.

Iliah · Feb 16, 2005

Chris, are you using info panel and eyedropper to evaluate casts?

hans · Feb 16, 2005

Gale · Feb 16, 2005

I guess NC and X

At least that is what I notice when I use NC on most of my pics..

If I really screw up :>)) often lolol I will use photoshop.

regards
Gale

Gale · Feb 16, 2005

Ps: if we are all wrong. You got some teaching to do, big time :>))

Gale

DavidM · Feb 16, 2005

Chris, Image 1 (Program X) is clearly the better color-balanced pic.

Your hint makes me nervous, though, because I'm thinking that it may be easier for a color-blind person to see WB issues in the ACR histograms than in NC. I haven't done any testing on this, but if you know what you're looking for I would think the ACR interface might be easier to use for that one aspect. I do, however, personally prefer NC for just about every other aspect of RAW processing, especially after Ron Reznick's training.

Rich Gibson · Feb 16, 2005

DavidM said:
Chris, Image 1 (Program X) is clearly the better color-balanced pic.

Your hint makes me nervous, though, because I'm thinking that it may be easier for a color-blind person to see WB issues in the ACR histograms than in NC. I haven't done any testing on this, but if you know what you're looking for I would think the ACR interface might be easier to use for that one aspect. I do, however, personally prefer NC for just about every other aspect of RAW processing, especially after Ron Reznick's training.

So.......? Which is which?

)

DavidM · Feb 16, 2005

Hey Rich -

If you were directing that at me, I guess I think Program X is ACR and Program Y is NC. Definitely not because I think ACR is better, just because I think Chris could deal with the interface better.

Then again, maybe I'm just totally offbase here...

Iliah · Feb 16, 2005

Problem with the "Y" image is that it is rendered too high, highlights are blown-out. Channels are clipped. Hence it is much harder to balance the image across the tonal range - balancing one tone skews the other tones.

"X" image is slightly overcompensated in attempt to preserve highlights. The most clipped is red channel, so while compensating exposure in ACR green and blue channels were slightly underexposed. If white balance would be adjusted a little after exposure compensation, result would be a little better IMHO.

Chris101 · Feb 17, 2005

Thank you all - this exercise was very educational for me. I am still sold on ACR's abilities as far as my working with color goes. David M got it right, I use the color histograms of ACR and Photoshop a lot in watching for color casts - and the cursor always shows the color under it. These are essential for me to know if something is going green or purple (as at low saturations, they look the same to me.

I haven't found a suitable mechanism in Nikon Capture, although I do think it produces smoother transitions from one tone to another.

Iliah, you wrote "Chris, are you using info panel and eyedropper to evaluate casts?" I use the eyedropper in Photoshop to evaluate colors, but I mostly rely on 1) the color histogram and 2) I turn the magenta and green saturation all the way up, so they become obvious. I'm not so familiar with NC, so I don't really know my way around in there yet. Where would I find tools analogous to these?

AND, I don't yet get the interface of Nikon Capture. It's like each control is working on it's own layer. On the other hand, I'm not too crazy with the modality of ACR: after conversion with a few tools in ACR, it gets handed off to PS and you can't go back and tweak the white balance. I want the power of all three programs!!

Well, not tonight. Thanks again for all your opinions and ideas. Since you read this far... X=ACR.

Chris101 · Feb 17, 2005

Rich Gibson said:
Why do I think of the Kobiyashi Maru gambit? Other than the color balance being way off on image y, image X has a lot more detail in the whites but a slight magenta cast. I'm going to assume you've done the same processes to both. I'll guess program x is NC 4.2

Nah - I never cheat, but it's the other way 'round. Seems I'm magenta prone with ACR. This is something I must keep on top of, yet image y (nc) is what, ... green? Man. :shock: 8) :shock:

Flew · Feb 17, 2005

Thanks Chris. This was fun. 8)

Frank

Iliah · Feb 17, 2005

There are four fixed and one free eyedropper in NC; but first thing to try is to bring back the "exposure" in NC.

You can do it using Advanced palette, exposure compensation; while watching "L" histogram in LCH editor and switching through channel histograms in Curve pane. As your near-highlights in this photo are nearly neutral, exposure and white balance should be adjusted so that channel histograms near right wall should have very similar shape and just touch the wall. The one that touches first will determine cast of the image

Chris101 · Feb 17, 2005

Thanks Iliah, I will work with NC a bit more before I give up on it.