Nikon had a terrible sales quarter and is revising forward estimates.

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(...)

Of course if you don't have F-mount glass and want to start a mirrorless kit from scratch, it would be more sensible to buy a Sony at this moment. And that's the challenge to which Nikon must rise.
That is the elephant in the room. I suspect that most of the Z cams sold have been to customers who are already invested in the Nikon ecosystem. Similarly, I suspect that the Z cams weak sales are a direct result of this. The number of potential customers is much smaller if part of your sales pitch is the ability to use F-mount glass.
 
I see a lot of people (both Nikon & Canon shooters) worried that their lenses and bodies are now labelled 'legacy' equipment. For me they were pretty much legacy they day I bought them, they weren't investments.
I'm 57, I'm pretty sure that I will be able to shoot with one of those flappy mirror dinosaur Nikon bodies and use my 'legacy' lenses till the time comes to hang up my tripod.

The D850 is at the very height of evolution in bodies, I'm still reading books and learning about it after two + years of ownership and coming over from Canon to Nikon.

Mirrorless holds Zero interest for me. I think whilst Nikon is tooled up for dSLR production they'd be crazy to not keep coming out with new ones.
 
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the FTZ works perfectly fine. Not a nuisance at all, and besides, it's not a long term solution. It's intended to keep legacy glass relevant in a mirrorless world until the Z-mount lens lineup can be completed.
That makes so much sense until I realize that Z50 users and the earliest adopters of the Z6 and Z7, for whom Nikon should be most grateful, had to pay for the FTZ.

It's like a truck manufacturer telling owners that their new truck, which is designed to be more stable and fuel-efficient while pulling trailers, won't work with existing trailers. But they can solve that problem by paying extra for a special trailer hitch. And once the manufacturer gets its act in order, those owners will be able to pay extra yet again to buy a new trailer that works with the truck without the special hitch.

(Bonus: the FTZ breathes new life and markedly improved performance into non-VR F-mount lenses)
Not true for those who always use a tripod.
 
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I know this is hard to believe, especially if you've had prior bad experiences with adapters, but the FTZ works perfectly fine. Not a nuisance at all, and besides, it's not a long term solution. It's intended to keep legacy glass relevant in a mirrorless world until the Z-mount lens lineup can be completed. (Bonus: the FTZ breathes new life and markedly improved performance into non-VR F-mount lenses)

Of course if you don't have F-mount glass and want to start a mirrorless kit from scratch, it would be more sensible to buy a Sony at this moment. And that's the challenge to which Nikon must rise.
I've been adapting lenses since 2011 when mirrorless was just gaining traction. I've already briefly owned the Z6 and think the body is fine. The problem is that a lot of these manufacturers making FF gear, aren't making the lenses any smaller. Considering the short flange distance, we should be getting mirrorless FF glass sized just slightly larger than Leica M lenses. Instead we're getting lenses sized like FF DSLR lenses bolted to an adapter. Samyang for example is the only manufacturer who are making lenses that are both smaller and more lightweight. My current Samyang trio of the 18mm 2.8, 45mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.4 is smaller, lighter than anything Nikon, Sony or Canon are making. Nikon's suffering from it's own hubris and really needs to rethink how they do things. Nikon needs more lenses like the 14-30mm f/4 or Canon's recently announced 70-200mm 2.8 RF which is retractable. To me those type of lenses are in the right direction.

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191023_SAMYANG_TRIO_PHOTOS_FRIOLO_001 by Jonathan Friolo, on Flickr
 
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Nikon had several choices when they introduced the Z system, all fraught with compromise:

1. Z7/6 plus a full line of S lenses, negating the need for a FTZ adaptor, thus alienating current F owners, but attractive to non-Nikon shooters looking for mirrorless system. This forces the question, which of their sacred cows (existing lens/camera offerings) would be killed off?

2. Z7/6 plus a limited line of S lenses, a FTZ adaptor, thus alienating non-Nikon shooters , but attractive to current F Nikon shooters looking to add a mirrorless system to their exiting Nikon stable. This forces the question, how to quickly build a full line of S lenses?

3. ???
 
Well.....I guess this is as good a thread as any to announce that for the first time since the late 1980's I do not have a Nikon camera or lens in the house..... Yes, I took the big leap today and traded my gear in for a Sony A7R IV and three lenses (135mm f/1.8, 90mm f/2.8 macro and 50mm f/2.8 macro). This was not a decision which came lightly, and it is one with which I have been wrestling for well over a year....... I waited and watched to see how things were going with the Nikon Z series and its new lenses, I looked at images, I looked at the projected "roadmap" of future lens releases, I thought about everything carefully and rethought and rethought again. It's still rather new to me now, and I'm still not quite "there" yet with the realization that if I go into the other room and open one of my Domkke bags or one of my large ThinkTank bags or flip open the locks on the Pelican case that there won't be any Nikon lenses sitting in there..... Those lenses were tired of just sitting around here, used infrequently, and really do deserve new homes, with new users who will be excited and happy to be shooting with them, and that makes me feel good.

I'm going to miss my Nikon gear, but for me this seems to be the right time to say goodbye to it. As many members here know, I have been using Sony's NEX-7, the RX10 M4 and several versions of the RX100 over the years so it's not as though I'm jumping into a wholly new and unfamiliar system. In assessing overall what I like to do with photography and what really appeals to me most and what is actually available out there now, well......for me the time for DSLRs has passed. I would not spend money on another DSLR or lenses for it. Mirrorless is where things are going and I'm going right along with them. I also particularly am interested in shooting macros and abstracts -- and this, unfortunately, is where Nikon has failed to come through with its new mirrorless Z system and lenses, and there are no macro lenses on the horizon any time within the next couple of years from what I can see. I want native macro lenses in whatever system I shoot, I do not want to fool around with an adapter and I do not want to use a third-party lens which may or may not be satisfactory to me.

So, yes, unfortunately for Nikon I am no longer going to be a customer/user, and I am truly sad about that. We had a good long run together, though......
 
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unfortunately for Nikon I am no longer going to be a customer/user, and I am truly sad about that.
It's just my way of looking at things, but I can't relate to being sad about that. Nikon didn't meet your needs and you made a highly informed decision after having given it a considerable amount of thought over a long period of time. In short, Nikon has to earn our business and at least for this moment in time they lost yours. I'm thrilled for you that you've arrived at a solution to your needs.
 
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Yes, I took the big leap today and traded my gear in for a Sony A7R IV and three lenses (135mm f/1.8, 90mm f/2.8 macro and 50mm f/2.8 macro). T
Congratulations!

Macro/close-up photography can be so much fun. Nature has some wonderful plants and insects, and you usually don't need to travel too far to find some.
Mirrorless certainly has its benefits, in particular live view, an area where Nikon has struggled, IMO, with their DSLR's.

I look forward to seeing some of your work with the new setup!
 
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Yes, I took the big leap today and traded my gear in for a Sony A7R IV and three lenses (135mm f/1.8, 90mm f/2.8 macro and 50mm f/2.8 macro).
I did the a7riv about 2 months ago. There is a pretty steep learning curve, or I should call it a useage curve. Drop me a PM if you are stuck on anything. It is still a camera- for the first month I pretty much used it on manual everything- like I have done for years- and it worked really well. I slowly dove into the setup possiblities and wow. I presently have 3 different focus types setup on different rear focus buttons. Eye tracking is plus/minus, but focus peaking works great. I have another custom button set for portrait settings. I can be shooting birds in flight, and when it lands I just push c1. This resets all my settings- and gives me 1/320, f8, auto iso, single shot. When I am done shooting the solitary bird, release c1 and I am back to high shutterspeed, wide open, hi speed constant shooting.
The menu systems are randomly thrown together- but customizing my menu and I never go through the menus anymore.
The 135mm lens is amazing.
I had some focus issues for the first couple of weeks, but they have pretty much gone away as I learned. The system is now at least as easy to use as my old nikon.
Buy some big cards, lots and lots of big cards.
Enjoy the transition.
I still consider nikon cafe a great community. I still have some nikon gear, so hopefully I am still welcome as well.
Gary
 
Puhleeze, puhleeze, folks, don't evict me!!! I will always have a fondness for Nikon and I certainly learned a lot through the years using Nikon cameras and lenses and as a result I have a sentimental attachment there, so that is the part where (now former) "Nikon Girl" feels a bit sad tonight.......

It was weird in the store, standing there at the one counter looking on as the woman examined all my offerings, my lenses, testing them, and then with a turn of my head, looking over at the next counter where the boxes containing the new camera and lenses were sitting, waiting for me to claim them..... So, yeah, I'm a little sad, but thanks, Mike, for affirming and acknowledging that this was not an easy decision and that in the end it absolutely did boil down to which camera system meets my needs, desires and future needs......

At the same time, yes, indeed, I'm really excited and thrilled and I think that I made the right choices for myself in terms of both camera body and lenses. I will put everything, including myself, to the test tomorrow! In the meantime I keep going over to look at my new goodies on the dining table.....WOW!!!!

Thanks, Richard -- I've long loved macro and abstracts and it's been a while since I have really done anything serious along those lines, so I am looking forward to getting back into it again! Once I discovered the value of focus peaking in mirrorless photography, I realized how terrific that is, especially when shooting close-ups and macro. I knew a year ago that my next camera was not going to be another DSLR, that it would be mirrorless. I had a 35mm APS-C macro lens with my NEX-7 but never went beyond that with that camera. The 90mm FF macro has been on my radar for a long, long time....... My light tent and props and other accessories have been patiently waiting for me to put them back to work, and I am hoping that by the time spring rolls around with new flowers and such blooming outdoors that I'll have figured out what I'm doing with this new gear well enough to capture some decent images! :)

West, thanks for that link to a Sony forum; I had figured there must be one but hadn't actually investigated. I've been casually following posts on DPR in their Sony forum and also the Talk E-Mount forum. Interestingly enough, my very first couple of SLRs way, way back in time were Minoltas...... One nice and special thing about Nikon Cafe is that here we have always been open and receptive to people using other brands and other systems in addition to or in place of Nikon.....and I hope we can remain that way! Thanks, Doug, for your reassurance that I am always welcome here. I have absolutely no plans to leave.....

Gary, thanks for your support and chances are that I will need some assistance along the way because this camera is a lot more complex than the D3 or any other camera that I have ever used -- probably I won't begin to by half exploit what all it is capable of doing..... I figure that tomorrow I'll just do the basics with the setup, delving into the menu and working with the stuff that I already am familiar with anyway thanks to my other Sony cameras, and then as I start using the camera will begin to refine and customize settings more and more.... Yes, I'm definitely anticipating that the first few outings with this camera will result in a lot of misfires as far as focus goes and/or some blur in spite of the IBIS, etc., as this thing is going to reveal every misstep I make in terms of how I focus and shoot the image! I went through that years ago with I think it was the Nikon D2X; this will be much more of a strict reminder to shoot carefully, thoughtfully and precisely.....

Thankfully, I also remembered to get a Wimberley Universal Arca-Swiss compatible plate that will work with my Gitzo tripod and RRS 55 Ballhead. The store didn't have any L-Brackets that would work, and I know from checking few weeks ago that RRS is taking preorders on them. This camera is still a pretty new model, after all. After I've had it a while and seen how much I really do use it on the tripod then I'll decide if I need to go with an L-Bracket instead of just the plate.

Yes, I did buy a couple of new SD cards today, and probably will be adding more later, as I knew I'd need them right off the bat. For the time being I won't be shooting in continuous high drive, though, will just stick to single drive mode until I get a feel for how that 61mp affects my computer and my image editing process. I've got 32 GB RAM and an i9 processor in this machine so that should be able to handle things. A year ago when I bought it I was already thinking about making a change in my photo gear.....

I can't believe I finally did this -- it has been a long, long time in coming!
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Puhleeze, puhleeze, folks, don't evict me!!! I will always have a fondness for Nikon and I certainly learned a lot through the years using Nikon cameras and lenses and as a result I have a sentimental attachment there, so that is the part where (now former) "Nikon Girl" feels a bit sad tonight.......

It was weird in the store, standing there at the one counter looking on as the woman examined all my offerings, my lenses, testing them, and then with a turn of my head, looking over at the next counter where the boxes containing the new camera and lenses were sitting, waiting for me to claim them..... So, yeah, I'm a little sad, but thanks, Mike, for affirming and acknowledging that this was not an easy decision and that in the end it absolutely did boil down to which camera system meets my needs, desires and future needs......

At the same time, yes, indeed, I'm really excited and thrilled and I think that I made the right choices for myself in terms of both camera body and lenses. I will put everything, including myself, to the test tomorrow! In the meantime I keep going over to look at my new goodies on the dining table.....WOW!!!!

Thanks, Richard -- I've long loved macro and abstracts and it's been a while since I have really done anything serious along those lines, so I am looking forward to getting back into it again! Once I discovered the value of focus peaking in mirrorless photography, I realized how terrific that is, especially when shooting close-ups and macro. I knew a year ago that my next camera was not going to be another DSLR, that it would be mirrorless. I had a 35mm APS-C macro lens with my NEX-7 but never went beyond that with that camera. The 90mm FF macro has been on my radar for a long, long time....... My light tent and props and other accessories have been patiently waiting for me to put them back to work, and I am hoping that by the time spring rolls around with new flowers and such blooming outdoors that I'll have figured out what I'm doing with this new gear well enough to capture some decent images! :)

West, thanks for that link to a Sony forum; I had figured there must be one but hadn't actually investigated. I've been casually following posts on DPR in their Sony forum and also the Talk E-Mount forum. Interestingly enough, my very first couple of SLRs way, way back in time were Minoltas...... One nice and special thing about Nikon Cafe is that here we have always been open and receptive to people using other brands and other systems in addition to or in place of Nikon.....and I hope we can remain that way! Thanks, Doug, for your reassurance that I am always welcome here. I have absolutely no plans to leave.....

Gary, thanks for your support and chances are that I will need some assistance along the way because this camera is a lot more complex than the D3 or any other camera that I have ever used -- probably I won't begin to by half exploit what all it is capable of doing..... I figure that tomorrow I'll just do the basics with the setup, delving into the menu and working with the stuff that I already am familiar with anyway thanks to my other Sony cameras, and then as I start using the camera will begin to refine and customize settings more and more.... Yes, I'm definitely anticipating that the first few outings with this camera will result in a lot of misfires as far as focus goes and/or some blur in spite of the IBIS, etc., as this thing is going to reveal every misstep I make in terms of how I focus and shoot the image! I went through that years ago with I think it was the Nikon D2X; this will be much more of a strict reminder to shoot carefully, thoughtfully and precisely.....

Thankfully, I also remembered to get a Wimberley Universal Arca-Swiss compatible plate that will work with my Gitzo tripod and RRS 55 Ballhead. The store didn't have any L-Brackets that would work, and I know from checking few weeks ago that RRS is taking preorders on them. This camera is still a pretty new model, after all. After I've had it a while and seen how much I really do use it on the tripod then I'll decide if I need to go with an L-Bracket instead of just the plate.

Yes, I did buy a couple of new SD cards today, and probably will be adding more later, as I knew I'd need them right off the bat. For the time being I won't be shooting in continuous high drive, though, will just stick to single drive mode until I get a feel for how that 61mp affects my computer and my image editing process. I've got 32 GB RAM and an i9 processor in this machine so that should be able to handle things. A year ago when I bought it I was already thinking about making a change in my photo gear.....

I can't believe I finally did this -- it has been a long, long time in coming!
DST, we have a member of the Cafe family in distress. To arms! I will start. Consuming a very nice cabernet at this moment.
 
DST, we have a member of the Cafe family in distress. To arms! I will start. Consuming a very nice cabernet at this moment.
Just in case Connie doesn't know the lingo, DST = Drinking Support Team. Unfortunately, I've had my doctor's allotment for the day, but I'll join in support of her tomorrow. I haven't decided the wine yet but it will be a fairly acidic white wine. That should help do the trick.
 

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