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Nikon 'service'- I'll stick with my local dealer thanks.

Discussion in 'Nikon DX DSLR Forum' started by AFS, Dec 27, 2005.

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  1. I'm a bit upset right now.
    Last night I shot off an extremely comprehensive email to Nikon service about two issues- a hot pixel showing up as they said at shutter speeds faster than 1/4 sec in well lit portions of the photo, and my battery life issues, which have still not improved.

    The man replied saying I don't have a hot pixel (yes I do) and that I don't have any battery problem. I would think I do, considering using a much more energy efficient shooting style than I did with my D70, I'm getting about 1/12 of the shots I used to with an 'inferior' battery.
    He then went on to say if there is a power management issue Nikon will correct it with firmware...I don't see how this would help if there might be an actual physical electrical problem with the cameras.

    I won't go into all the details but the reply was obviously coming from someone who has no idea about the cameras he is counted on to provide service information about.

    I'll be going in to the local pro shop where I got the camera as soon as possible. I trust them. I don't trust Nikon tech support anymore.
  2. Harrison,
    while I understand your angst, please dont draw a line in the sand. Any time a new product comes out, all manner of service inquiries occur and sometimes the provider does not yet have answers, so they say politically and legal tested standard responses while they try and regroup behind the scenes. I rather suspect these issues will come to a resolve in due time. I remember all the flap on the focusing issues regarding the D2X right after I bought it. I chose to try and do as well as I could with the camera and figured some if not all of the issues I had were based on lack of knowledge or technique on my part. Then recently, albeit 8 months after I bought it, a firmware upgrade did come out and it did greatly improve the cameras performance. I am certain these issues cause you much anxiety, but please give them the chance. They make some of the finest equipment on earth, they will not gloss over on this issue.
  3. Gale


    Jan 26, 2005
    Viera Fl
    Call them and ask for a senior tech.. E-mail will get you bubkis....
  4. the person on the other end of phone my not have all they need.. info and use

    Yes first run product do have issues

    as for the battery... I have read several differnt ideas
    Run it dead first couple times
    leave it dead until you need it

    CCD chip camera uses more energy... my D1x was Half the LCD
    but it took me 2-3 batteries per wedding 800-1200 shots

    get a second battery when they come out... maybe be upset about the lack of batteries

    as for a HOT pixel... I have seen that with my D2x and D1x... but 1 out of 500 shots (1 pixel very bright, never in the same spot- cant see it on the LCD only when opened it PS7 at 1000% retouching bags and blems)
    it is Digital... enlarge it and retouch it... no big deal
  5. Exactly... If you must write, do a real letter in an envelope with a stamp and ALL your supporting documentation.

  6. espn


    Dec 11, 2005
    Hi Harrison,

    Hotpixels are not stuck/dead pixels, therefore, it's nothing really to worry about, turning on NR might help. The pixels appear because the sensor is an electronic device and thus the photosites might be affected after prolonged usage at long shutter openings.

    As what Bill has mentioned, a simple clone/heal with the brush would do. Really nothing to worry about.

    As for battery life, on a D100 with 2 EN-EL3s, I can achieve about say 800 shots before it goes dead on me, so for the EN-EL3E, given the larger LCD, I'm not surprised the battery life is that weak.

    A few more batteries would help (at of course, a price) :) , else all in all I think this great camera is still a baby to own (have tried a friend's D200). I think some minor hiccups here and there is unavoidable, as there's... no perfect camera?

    As for emails, normally (for the case of Singapore) it's non-technical people addressing the replies, so their knowledge is as far as their tech specs/sheets describe things. Very common as these people are the first line of 'defence' when it comes to support. Not very professional, but not their fault either.

    Btw, Bill, D1X is a well known battery sucker, my friend had to be contented with 4 batteries everytime he goes shooting. Glad the EN-EL4 is a vast improvement over the EN-4.
  7. Ken-L

    Ken-L Guest

    Harrison, if I had a bad pixel in my new D200 I would want it fixed or exchanged.

    I'm not concerned with the battery "issue" because if "that's the way it is", I'll accept it, and if they do improve battery performance, that's fine too.

    I would want to be sure that MY camera or battery (or both) did not have a defect causing this.
  8. I can't say that a stuck pixel or two out of 10 000 000 would bother me. Just get it mapped out at some stage. It's not really that serious...sometimes they just get unstuck on their own, in my experience.
  9. Precisely what I wanted. I was just trying to check with the service dept. to make sure they would map it out.
  10. Well, on the D200 the manual claims NR doesn't kick in until 8s. It kills my buffer and though I tried it at low shutter speeds, it didn't do anything about it.
    I don't worry about it, I just wanted to see if they would be able to map it out for me yet.
    The thing is this: my shooting style for the D70 always gave me more than 100% of the claimed battery life, in situations that put even more drain on the camera than their testing procedures. When I upgraded to the EN-EL3A, it improved even more. My D200 shooting style now includes several energy-cutting measures over the D70 style I used to use.
    So I don't understand why my battery life is nearly 1/10 of what they claimed in the very best of cases. :confused: 
    Getting 2-2.5 shots per 1% is simply not acceptable- with an equivalent battery (EN-EL3A, same mah: 1500mah same voltage 7.4v) in my D70, I would get 20-25+ shots per %, calculated by 2500 shots/charge or more that I would actually get, in fact I got over 2000 shots with my D70+original EN-EL3 on a few occasions.

    For me, this is just about the perfect camera, and if I could get battery life similar to other people who are using it, It would be perfect. I think I simply have a defective battery or something like that.
    Unfortunately it isn't a matter of just buy another battery. You can't find them anywhere! It'll be Nimh AA's in the MB-D200 or one En-El3E until I can get more.
  11. Harrison,

    As mentioned earlier, write a letter. Keep it short, no more than one page. Preferably one or two paragraphs. Be nice, state the facts.

    Here are two employees at Nikon USA
    Lee C. Shuett, executive vice president of Nikon Instruments Inc
    Eric Flem Nikon Communications Manager
    Nikon Americas Inc.
    1300 Walt Whitman Road,
    Melville, NY 11747-3064, U.S.A.
    or write to japan
    Executive Officer GOTO, Tetsuro
    General Manager of Development Management Department,
    Imaging Company
    Fuji Bldg., 2-3, Marunouchi 3-chome, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8331
    Phone: +81-3-3214-5311

  12. You do realize that the Sensor uses almost double the power of the D70's sensor?

    How about the larger LCD and brighter larger backlight? (Educated guess has the LCD consuming 2x the D70's LCD)

    Or the larger faster Buffer?

    How about the Focus system?

    or the faster focus drive?

    In normal use I have measured a 2.5X increase in current draw compared to my D70s. I am getting between 400 and 600 shots before needing to charge my battery on my D200 which is right inline with what I would expect my D70s to shoot on the same charge.

    And your "Hot" pixel is really not a problem it's normal to have pixel's that need to be mapped out
  13. I don't want to sound rude folks, but just so you all get it...
    I KNOW the Pixel is not a problem. :smile:
    I just wanted to see if they were ready to be able to map them out yet. The guy just gave me attitude.

    Now for batteries.
    I've taken all those considerations about extra battery drain under consideration:
    1) I'm using LCD brightness -2 and spending <1/2 the time I spent on the D70 reviewing and changing settings- it is much faster to do with the D200 using command dials and shortcuts
    2) Yes, filesize differences. I'm not expecting 2500 shots per charge. Just more than 217 (my latest accomplishment)
    3) Focus Pocus :wink:... I wouldnt expet it to draw too much more power...using a 17-35 AFS its focusing a tiny bit faster but not too much, may just be my perception.

    If I were getting 2.5x the draw of my D70, I'd be getting 1000 shots per charge. And I've shortened the amount of time spent using the monitor by half and cut the brightness (that negates the D200's extra LCD drain at least partly), shortened the meter off delay to 8s (now 6s), shortened my monitor off delay, don't use the onboard flash basically at all (with the D70 I used commander mode a lot), Haven't used my 70-200 VR for more than 50 out of 1000 shots etc. etc.

    MY battery life with the D200 has been remarkably consistent. Somewhere around 215 shots it dies.

    But I've found an explanation....See my next thread in this forum entitled "Battery Mystery Solved?"

  14. Reading your post it seems that you are expecting the camera to perform just like your D70, without taking into account that it takes a LOT more power.

    You are moving 66% more information per photo, Focusing with a much better and more complex system, a bigger meter, bigger lcd, bigger flash yet you want all of this to work on the same power draw as the D70.

    It's not going to happen. Oh and your assertion that I should be getting 2000+ Frames before charge on the D70 is a little optimistic, I'm happy with the 1500 that I am getting, and guess what that tracks PERFECTLY with what I am getting on the D200.

    BTW you do realize that the battery is only 80% charged when the light turns solid on the charger? It takes another 4 hours to get the last 20% charged

    Quick Aside, you do not want to run your batteries to cutoff, they will last longer and have more capacity if you recharge them often and store them halfway depleted.
  15. I'm not expecting it to perform exactly like my D70. As I have said, I am expecting it to draw more- but I'm expecting that since my D70 shooting style was in line or more efficient than their upper case of battery life testing, that with my energy saving changes to my style, the D200 should be somewhere CLOSER to the upper limit battery life case.
    Right now I can't get it to even equal their worst case, using built in flash at full power every other shot style.
    Even an 80% charge (and I leave it on the charger for a while longer but not too long, reads 100% in camera) would not account for the missing 140 shots or so before their worst case consumption limit.

    I don't want to sound rude or anything but I feel maybe you're judging me by my age? I have quite a large amount of experience shooting with my D70. I have absorbed quite a bit of knowledge. And by YOUR figures of power drain increases from D70-D200 I should still be getting aroud 800-1000 shots per charge with the D200 even with the same shooting style (same LCD review time, same meter off, same VR/built in flash usage, and so on and so on). And I'm not using the same style, but one that has halved the amount of LCD use, halved the meter off time, basically eliminated built in flash and VR usage, and so on.

    The 2000+ frames on the D70 is simply MY experience with MY shooting style, and is not intended as an assertion that you should be getting this amount.

    The 800-1000 shots figure is not only in line with YOUR drain increase figures, but is in line with reports from users who have had their battery life stabilize after the clock battery charge. Mine has been stable all along- 200 shots, +/-25, and it 'dies'.
    I'd be perfectly happy with 800 shots per charge for an EN-EL3E, even more so once I get 2 spares and the MB-D200 arrives. The more the merrier of course.
    My original EN-EL3 eventually lost the ability to hold charge well. I replaced it with the A (kept it as a spare just in case) a few months ago but only after it was getting me 300-400 shots per charge tops. Averaging 1700 shots per month with the D70, that meant 4-6 charges per month, while I can normally go through a whole month and then some without *needing* to recharge (I do routinely top off my batteries.

    I rarely run my battery to cutoff. One person suggested allowing the E to run to cutoff once so the meter could calibrate properly. I did this. You know what, though? The battery WAS NOT dead, my E has never been run to cutoff.
    See my other thread if you haven't already...The EN-EL3E or the D200 has a circuitry problem that reads it as dead way too early.
    The battery that I just ran to 'cutoff' in the D200 is snapping away just fine in my D70 without recharging even for a minute, showing full bars.

  16. LOL, I have been shooting longer (Much longer) than you have been alive. I have been dealing with batteries and Battery Manufactures for the last 20 years. I have been involved in the design and testing of LiIon batteries for the last 5 years.

    LiIons have a life of 250 charge cycles (a LiIon is considered dead when it can no longer provide 50% of rated capacity)

    The battery needs 15-20 full cycles for the calibration of the meter to be correct.

    Since the D70 is consuming only about 33% power that the D200 is the battery is "Stiff" enough not to "Droop" Below Vco (Voltage Cutoff) and since the D70 uses a dumb meter that only reads battery voltage it's going to show full. Stiffness and Droop describe battery behavior. Stiffness describes how much current the battery pour out at once and droop describes the curve that the voltage follows under load. You can have a battery reading 7.2 volts but if it has depleted 80% of it's amperage and you hit it with high current consumption it will droop. How low is a function of it's age. But even new it's going to droop hard and if that droop is below Vco the camera will shut down
  17. PGB


    Jan 25, 2005
    This thread closed at the request of original author.
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