Nikon Set To Post 720M Loss
- Thread starter LyndeeLoo
- Start date
Not at all unexpected......many of us thought Nikon should have focused on mirrorless at least 5 years ago. By the time they catch up technically, Sony and
Canon will have secured the market and probably have enough quantity of sales to drive prices down to further hamper Nikon's recovery.
Canon will have secured the market and probably have enough quantity of sales to drive prices down to further hamper Nikon's recovery.
I agree with Karen; Nikon has been way too slow getting fully into the mirrorless market. Catching up will be difficult. The petapixel article cited a profit for Canon but it would be interesting to know how their imaging division did.
The Z system seems to be picking up a lot of new users, if DPR forum activity can be used as a measure. It is also difficult to find some lenses in stock.
I think they have done a better job than Canon on the mirrorless front, because they concentrated on getting lenses that mere mortals can afford out onto the market first. I think the Z6/7 offer better value for money compared to the R5/6
Let's see what Hogan has to say, he is usually a calm voice of reason with reasonable financial knowlege. Sure the YouTube trolls are going to have a clickbait party with this.
I think they have done a better job than Canon on the mirrorless front, because they concentrated on getting lenses that mere mortals can afford out onto the market first. I think the Z6/7 offer better value for money compared to the R5/6
Let's see what Hogan has to say, he is usually a calm voice of reason with reasonable financial knowlege. Sure the YouTube trolls are going to have a clickbait party with this.
I don't have time to read this right now but I'll read it later: https://petapixel.com/2021/01/20/nikon-is-going-to-be-fine-probably/
Heck, I can't even find a kitchenaid in stock. I think manufacturing across the board is having supply/parts problems.
It is not surprising that they are late to the game with thinking like:
"Ikegami says that he was unconvinced that mirrorless cameras would be able to compete with the number of photos per battery that DSLRs could manage, saying that the 500 photos a mirrorless camera could capture did not look favorable compared to a DSLR’s 1000 shots."
Seriously, he was hesitant because you might have to carry an extra battery (or two or five)?
Here's the problem though..... "we" didn't want Nikon to do it.
"We" kept giving Nikon reason after reason to NOT enter the mirrorless market.
Very informative article.
Really 'dollar after dollar' to NOT enter the MILC market
I think it is really hard to understand the internals of many corporations. On the one hand they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize returns to their stock owners. On the other hand, the world has rapidly evolved to an 'innovate or die' marketplace where innovation always involves monetary risk, and most businesses (especially long established ones) hate risk.
I had always assumed that the Nikon 1 was a testbed but it seemed like a scattered approach - and not a coherently planned and developed system. The FT1 was clearly the grandfather of the FTZ but the rest of the system seemed to whither away.
I had a friend who consulted on innovation for fortune 500 companies. One of his favorite phrases was whenever he was sitting with a Board of Directors and someone started opining about their past great products he'd just shake his head and say "But they were the best buggy whips . . ."
I'm not buying it. Many of us have bought little in the last few years. But even we could tell where the market was headed and could see that Sony was making HUGE in-roads in the mirrorless market. Canon got smart and revved up.
Nikon management should have been reading the "tea leaves" and positioning the company for the future..... NOT wringing the last bit from "old" technology. Vision and change keeps companies viable.
In fairness, the tsunami had devastating for Nikon. But management's long term vision seemed to be completely wonky!
All of my Nikon equipment will be coming up for sale soon.
D850, D5, Nikon 14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 600mm FL F-4, 1.4 TC, 1.7 TC, (2) SB-900, (2) SB-910. Will post details soon.
D850, D5, Nikon 14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 600mm FL F-4, 1.4 TC, 1.7 TC, (2) SB-900, (2) SB-910. Will post details soon.
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I suspect none of the board members at nikon are actually photographers. I do not know if that is true, but is my guess.
I was a dslr fanboy through and through, and did not understand why this mirrorless thing was catching on.
Eye problems/surgeries pushed me to the mirrorless side as I could see the viewfinder better.
The ability to actually capture what you see is amazing. Exposure control is stunning. Everything just got easier. Lots easier. Much of my work is backlight and borders between under and over exposure. It is now simple!!
I do not care if I have to carry 10 batteries, this boy is never going back.
There are issues they need to improve, after all this is a new format- but they will improve them.
If anyone on the nikon board had actually shot with a sony mirrorless camera 5 years ago, they would not be in this position today- imho.
gary
I was a dslr fanboy through and through, and did not understand why this mirrorless thing was catching on.
Eye problems/surgeries pushed me to the mirrorless side as I could see the viewfinder better.
The ability to actually capture what you see is amazing. Exposure control is stunning. Everything just got easier. Lots easier. Much of my work is backlight and borders between under and over exposure. It is now simple!!
I do not care if I have to carry 10 batteries, this boy is never going back.
There are issues they need to improve, after all this is a new format- but they will improve them.
If anyone on the nikon board had actually shot with a sony mirrorless camera 5 years ago, they would not be in this position today- imho.
gary
How could Nikon when "we" were still talking down the mirrorless market and Sony.....?
Think I am a perfect example as to why Nikon sales have slumped. As a almost 30 year Nikon only shooter with 3 Nikon bodies and 22 Nikkor lenses I almost gave up waiting for Nikon to go mirrorless, and when they finally did, I did not like what they gave us and went elsewhere. Back in late 2012 I added Olympus M4/3 to my Nikon gear, as my yearly trips to Thailand (Thai wife) with my Nikon D700/D800 and heavy lenses was just no longer practical due to airline weight restrictions. My lightweight EM5/EM1 bodies and the numerous small and compact f1.8 lenses were perfect for this. It really opened my eyes as to what Mirrorless cameras could do. But I missed shooting with my D800 and getting the high MP and finally after 6 years, Nikon announced the Z6 & Z7. This came 5 years after Sony announced its first A7 & A7R FF high MP mirrorless bodies in 2013.
What I saw was that the initial Z cameras were priced like Nikons high end DSLR cameras, but crippled by lack of features, supposedly to protect the DSLR market. The nail in the coffin (for me) with Nikon though was their lack of AF support for the Nikkor screw drive lenses, as I had 7. Nikon even today continues to sell AF screw drive lenses, like the 135mm f2 DC, 180mm f2.8D and 200mm f4 Micro with no new replacements in sight, yet they still refuse to put a screw drive motor into the mirrorless body, as they did in the D7000 series. If they could add this motor to a $900 DX body, they surely could have added it to a $2,100 and $3,400 Z body. Or at least put out an adapter that had the necessary motor. Instead they left me, and the owners of 4 million Nikkor screw drive lenses hanging.......
So I went with a 24MP Sony A7III in 2018 and then added a 42MP A7RIII and could not be happier. Meanwhile Nikon 2 years later in late 2020 announces the series II of the Z6 7& Z7, which in my opinion is the cameras they should have announced back in 2018. And they still don’t offer 3rd party lens support, which is a huge advantage of owning Sony A7 bodies. Nikon it seems still does not get it and if they do indeed go out of the camera business it is 100% the fault of their management with their backwards and protectionist thinking, where their long time existing customers were put last in the rapidly changing camera market.
What I saw was that the initial Z cameras were priced like Nikons high end DSLR cameras, but crippled by lack of features, supposedly to protect the DSLR market. The nail in the coffin (for me) with Nikon though was their lack of AF support for the Nikkor screw drive lenses, as I had 7. Nikon even today continues to sell AF screw drive lenses, like the 135mm f2 DC, 180mm f2.8D and 200mm f4 Micro with no new replacements in sight, yet they still refuse to put a screw drive motor into the mirrorless body, as they did in the D7000 series. If they could add this motor to a $900 DX body, they surely could have added it to a $2,100 and $3,400 Z body. Or at least put out an adapter that had the necessary motor. Instead they left me, and the owners of 4 million Nikkor screw drive lenses hanging.......
So I went with a 24MP Sony A7III in 2018 and then added a 42MP A7RIII and could not be happier. Meanwhile Nikon 2 years later in late 2020 announces the series II of the Z6 7& Z7, which in my opinion is the cameras they should have announced back in 2018. And they still don’t offer 3rd party lens support, which is a huge advantage of owning Sony A7 bodies. Nikon it seems still does not get it and if they do indeed go out of the camera business it is 100% the fault of their management with their backwards and protectionist thinking, where their long time existing customers were put last in the rapidly changing camera market.
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I was one of those who left Nikon after 20 years, seduced by the futuristic ( at the time) Olympus M43 system. I had been using a heavy D300 for travel and hiking, and the Olympus seemed much more practical, with a small hit on image quality. It actually had more MP than the D300.
I wanted to use the old Nikon PC lenses for an interest in architectural photography that evolved. I went down the SH DSLR road as they became affordable thanks to the migration to mirrorless. So I started a move back to Nikon about a year ago. But Nikon gained nothing from my return to the fold.
A couple of years ago I tried the Z7 at my dealers. Now this was a piece of kit that blew me away. I just knew I would have to get this camera. The EVF is on another planet compared to the Olympus EM5 I had at the time.
My M43 was traded in to partially pay for the Z7 and three lenses, including the simply brilliant 24-200.
I use the F an system side by side. The technical stuff with shift lenses and specialised lenses like my fisheye, I do with the D810, which is still very capable and I like the OVF. For travel and hiking the Z comes out.
I see the Z series of cameras as being superior to the Sony system in areas like lens image quality, menus, weatherproofing and ergonomics. They are just better Engineered. I see a drift back and towards the Z system if the activity on the DPR forums can be used as a measure. Lots of forum "friends" from the M43 have gone Z now that M43 is clearly a dying format.
My dealer talks about camera choice often coming down to what is "fashionable". Sony is the "brand to own" right now, but this will change as some other system is hyped up. Nikon with their heritage are in a good position to be the next "must have" system, if they can get the financial bad news behind them. They need to get the "clickbait pundits" like Sony Northrop on board.
I do not know what this financial statement really means. I wait for some informed person like Hogan who actually understands a financial report, to explain what the situation really is.
I wanted to use the old Nikon PC lenses for an interest in architectural photography that evolved. I went down the SH DSLR road as they became affordable thanks to the migration to mirrorless. So I started a move back to Nikon about a year ago. But Nikon gained nothing from my return to the fold.
A couple of years ago I tried the Z7 at my dealers. Now this was a piece of kit that blew me away. I just knew I would have to get this camera. The EVF is on another planet compared to the Olympus EM5 I had at the time.
My M43 was traded in to partially pay for the Z7 and three lenses, including the simply brilliant 24-200.
I use the F an system side by side. The technical stuff with shift lenses and specialised lenses like my fisheye, I do with the D810, which is still very capable and I like the OVF. For travel and hiking the Z comes out.
I see the Z series of cameras as being superior to the Sony system in areas like lens image quality, menus, weatherproofing and ergonomics. They are just better Engineered. I see a drift back and towards the Z system if the activity on the DPR forums can be used as a measure. Lots of forum "friends" from the M43 have gone Z now that M43 is clearly a dying format.
My dealer talks about camera choice often coming down to what is "fashionable". Sony is the "brand to own" right now, but this will change as some other system is hyped up. Nikon with their heritage are in a good position to be the next "must have" system, if they can get the financial bad news behind them. They need to get the "clickbait pundits" like Sony Northrop on board.
I do not know what this financial statement really means. I wait for some informed person like Hogan who actually understands a financial report, to explain what the situation really is.
My impression of Nikon is that they are more of an old school Japanese company. Sony and Canon are bigger companies with more irons in the fire so presumably have modernized their management style. If nothing else by sheer size and bringing in younger employees. In my career I dealt with an old heavy industry Japanese company including traveling to Japan for technical meetings. The grey hairs controlled everything that was done on projects and everything that was said in meetings. The equipment involved was decades old technology and they had no interest in any suggestions to improve it. Even if we were willing to pay for R/D for modifications they refused to consider them. I suspect that sort of mindset has a lot to do with Nikon clinging so tightly to DSLR.
Another thing that had to have hurt Nikon badly is the quality control issues they were having a few years back. I know it stopped me being an early adopter of anything they put out. I waited at least a year before buying anything that they released to see if there were any issues. Then right on the tail end of that string of issues came the tsunami and the problems that caused them in their supply chain.
All that said there is a lot to be said for their mirrorless line and the technical advantages of the Z mount. Once they finally decided to take the plunge they did a good job from a technical standpoint. The question is whether they're simply too late to the party. Also even though there are technical merits it was a big business risk switching mounts. If I have to use an adapter to continue using my extensive inventory of F mount lenses why not consider adapting to another system? Even though as an engineer I like what they're doing with mirrorless and Z, as a consumer I've lost confidence in the company. When I do take the full frame mirrorless plunge I doubt it will be with Nikon.
Another thing that had to have hurt Nikon badly is the quality control issues they were having a few years back. I know it stopped me being an early adopter of anything they put out. I waited at least a year before buying anything that they released to see if there were any issues. Then right on the tail end of that string of issues came the tsunami and the problems that caused them in their supply chain.
All that said there is a lot to be said for their mirrorless line and the technical advantages of the Z mount. Once they finally decided to take the plunge they did a good job from a technical standpoint. The question is whether they're simply too late to the party. Also even though there are technical merits it was a big business risk switching mounts. If I have to use an adapter to continue using my extensive inventory of F mount lenses why not consider adapting to another system? Even though as an engineer I like what they're doing with mirrorless and Z, as a consumer I've lost confidence in the company. When I do take the full frame mirrorless plunge I doubt it will be with Nikon.
Kind of like the Nikon "grey hairs" consumers that still clung to DSLRs regardless if the new young shooters wanted mirrorless.....
(BTW, I'm 57yrs old myself)
Okay.....AKA the Nikon Kid!
This from a 70 year old Nikon Geezer!
I'm that darn young "whipper-snapper"!
So true. Bunch of old fogies who can't live without things like fast AF and zero lag view finders.Kind of like the Nikon "grey hairs" consumers that still clung to DSLRs regardless if the new young shooters wanted mirrorless.....
(BTW, I'm 57yrs old myself)
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