Nikon Z owners how bad is your striping problem?

Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
3,978
Location
UK
During a conversation elsewhere I have been told that the PDAF striping (banding) is really bad on mirrorless cameras particularly Nikon Z and can be seen in the sky’s of landscapers shots.

My take on this is that issues have been massively overplayed. I am also aware that flare is the cause of PDAF striping and the subsequent banding can be caused by the manufacturers effort to cure it. A case of the cure being worse than the disease!
How bad is the problem for you?
Has Nikon eradicated any issue ore or post demosaic?

From the limited number of early examples I have seen and played with it seems to be an easy fix in photoshop.

Can anyone provide examples to share, I would like the opportunity to try fix in post ideally a raw image or two?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
205
Location
NC, USA
Real Name
Aaron
Checking the image count on my last photo, I've taken 170,429 images with my Z6 since late 2018. I have only seen the PDAF banding in perhaps one or two images, and only then because they were severely underexposed and I tried to increase exposure by 5+ stops. The banding was not as bad as the general noise, so I did not attempt to salvage the images anyway. I have had other images that were similarly underexposed that I was able to salvage without any apparent banding. Is this because Nikon "fixed" the issue in late firmware releases? Did Lightroom mask the banding with software improvements? I'm not sure, and it doesn't really matter; bottom line is that PDAF banding is really such a rare issue that its not something to worry about.
 

kilofoxtrott

European Ambassador
Moderator
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
9,346
Location
Tettnang, Germany
Real Name
Klaus
Checking the image count on my last photo, I've taken 170,429 images with my Z6 since late 2018. I have only seen the PDAF banding in perhaps one or two images, and only then because they were severely underexposed and I tried to increase exposure by 5+ stops. The banding was not as bad as the general noise, so I did not attempt to salvage the images anyway. I have had other images that were similarly underexposed that I was able to salvage without any apparent banding. Is this because Nikon "fixed" the issue in late firmware releases? Did Lightroom mask the banding with software improvements? I'm not sure, and it doesn't really matter; bottom line is that PDAF banding is really such a rare issue that its not something to worry about.
:wideyed: 170,429 Images in aprox. 2 years. WOW!

I shot 100,000 with my D700 and D3S in 11 years…

Impressive
Klaus
 

NCV

Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
531
Location
Italy
Real Name
Nigel
:wideyed: 170,429 Images in aprox. 2 years. WOW!

I shot 100,000 with my D700 and D3S in 11 years…

Impressive
Klaus

On the M34 Forum at DPR, a guy once complained that at about 18000 shots in one day his camera broke down.

When I replied that perhaps he might like to slow down next time and not take so many, I got a very angry reply.
 

kilofoxtrott

European Ambassador
Moderator
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
9,346
Location
Tettnang, Germany
Real Name
Klaus
On the M34 Forum at DPR, a guy once complained that at about 18000 shots in one day his camera broke down.

When I replied that perhaps he might like to slow down next time and not take so many, I got a very angry reply.
Last week I was playing with Emma, my granddaughter… :)
Suddenly she asked: "Grandpa, where's your camera?" :confused:

Well, first time I left it at home for a more relaxed playing… :D

Some people have asked me if the camera is tight grown to my hand.

Kind regards
Klaus
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
205
Location
NC, USA
Real Name
Aaron
:wideyed: 170,429 Images in aprox. 2 years. WOW!

I shot 100,000 with my D700 and D3S in 11 years…

Impressive
Klaus

On the M34 Forum at DPR, a guy once complained that at about 18000 shots in one day his camera broke down.

When I replied that perhaps he might like to slow down next time and not take so many, I got a very angry reply.

I have been consciously trying to shoot fewer frames lately, but shooting assignments 3-4 days per week, plus freelance and personal photos, I still rack up a lot of images. It's all fun and games until it's time to cull and edit. My "keeper rate" is rather abysmal, often less than 20%. I'm never satisfied with my efforts when shooting, so I keep trying different things until I run out of time or XQD cards... I'm not blessed with the ability to grab the 'best' shot in only a few frames, so I have to work really hard for it! 😂
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
3,978
Location
UK
I suggest you ask this conversant to supply you with an example.
Already have, and so far not a single raw image demonstrating the issue! Just a tiresome repetition of second hand internet FUD without any real world experience.

I am certainly aware that striping is a real potential image artefact of on sensor PDAF. But also aware that the problem seems to have been fixed by several companies.

Jim Kasson is well known to me and it was his writing a couple of years ago that alerted me to the issues although at the time it was only of passing interest.

Having looked at some images it seems to have been limited to a single pixel width. As such it is an easy fix in PS at least from what I have seen to date and would probably only be visible anyway at large print size, high zoom ratios when pixel peeping
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
920
Location
MN, USA
I have been consciously trying to shoot fewer frames lately, but shooting assignments 3-4 days per week, plus freelance and personal photos, I still rack up a lot of images. It's all fun and games until it's time to cull and edit. My "keeper rate" is rather abysmal, often less than 20%. I'm never satisfied with my efforts when shooting, so I keep trying different things until I run out of time or XQD cards... I'm not blessed with the ability to grab the 'best' shot in only a few frames, so I have to work really hard for it! 😂
We all need to chip in and buy you a film camera. That'll cure you quick. :)
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
920
Location
MN, USA
Already have, and so far not a single raw image demonstrating the issue! Just a tiresome repetition of second hand internet FUD without any real world experience.

I am certainly aware that striping is a real potential image artefact of on sensor PDAF. But also aware that the problem seems to have been fixed by several companies.

Jim Kasson is well known to me and it was his writing a couple of years ago that alerted me to the issues although at the time it was only of passing interest.

Having looked at some images it seems to have been limited to a single pixel width. As such it is an easy fix in PS at least from what I have seen to date and would probably only be visible anyway at large print size, high zoom ratios when pixel peeping
The images I've seen (and the two I had) showed a regular dotted pattern (you need to go to at least 100% to see them) which was not easily fixed in PS. The issue for me was that once you start raising shadows enough to see the pattern, you had other problems with noise, contrast, etc.

I read a post by a fellow who shot fireworks for a living and he claimed he had to regularly raise shadows by a number of stops to get the images his client demanded so there are use-cases where it might, just might, be an issue. But it's really one of those internet echo problems. Nikon, btw, isn't the only digital camera with this issue.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
3,978
Location
UK
The images I've seen (and the two I had) showed a regular dotted pattern (you need to go to at least 100% to see them) which was not easily fixed in PS. The issue for me was that once you start raising shadows enough to see the pattern, you had other problems with noise, contrast, etc.

I read a post by a fellow who shot fireworks for a living and he claimed he had to regularly raise shadows by a number of stops to get the images his client demanded so there are use-cases where it might, just might, be an issue. But it's really one of those internet echo problems. Nikon, btw, isn't the only digital camera with this issue.
Yes, from what I have seen PDAF striping is just one pixel wide and the number of one pixel stripes relates to the number of PDAF on the sensor. My own try at fixing in PS was reasonably successful with a pixel shifting method plus a little extra. RawTherapee has tools that should help and others are probably available including I believe Open Source implementations.

If present you do have to go 100% zoom to see them and then of course you are effectively looking through a 3x loupe if you were printing via a 300 ppi printer. Doing nothing and viewing small prints or web based viewing they are probably not visible. Once you start trying to raise an underexposed shot by +5 EV then you are asking for trouble.

AFAIK this phenomenon is present in most mirrorless systems, including Fuji, Sony and Nikon. It seems that it may be absent in Canons dual pixel autofocus
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
205
Location
NC, USA
Real Name
Aaron
We all need to chip in and buy you a film camera. That'll cure you quick. :)

Ha! I have shot a number of film cameras in my time, and have no desire to go back! Still have a Konica T3N and a few lenses if the film bug ever bites again...
 

Latest posts

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Nikon Cafe is a fan site and not associated with Nikon Corporation.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Forum GIFs powered by GIPHY: https://giphy.com/
Copyright © Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom