Nikon Z6/Nikon Z7 question

[Talos]

Hi all!

This is my first post in your wonderful forum, I am glad to be here.

I am on the fence of whether I should buy the Nikon Z6 or the more expensive Nikon Z7 and I would be pleased for your opinion.

While I obviously prefer the Z6 price wise, I am trying to figure out looking at plenty of photos online, which is the best choice for the best image quality.

After having looked many photos, I have noticed that I can see more detail on the Z7 photos, even if both Z6 and Z7 photos are displayed on my 1440 pixels vertical height monitor.

I know, theoretically its impossible to see that difference, but I always have this feeling on Z7 photos that the detail is more fine, I can see smaller filaments in bushes or more detail on distant mountains or get a more accurate feel of the textures of various materials.

My theory is that due to the Z7 having more pixels than the Z6, the oversampling creates a more sharp representation?

What is your opinion? I am certainly not planning on printing huge posters, but if I can see more detail on the Z7 photos even when oversampled to smaller sizes, maybe its worth to invest on the Z7?

They both have a significant cost and I read that the Z6 is better for video, so if all this is a placebo I rather go with the Z6. The problem is I have a hard time to justify my "feeling" as I can't find the exact same photo with the exact same lens and same focus from both cameras.

What is your opinion?

Your experience with the Z cameras will be of a big help for me to decide.

Thank you so much for your time to read my question.

 

[Palouse]

Welcome to the Café.
Ah, the million $ question What will help us provide an intelligent answer is to know more about your photography: what do you typically shoot? Are you a beginner, an advanced amateur, a semi pro, or ? What do you curently shoot?

 

[Mike Buckley]

A warm welcome also from me to the Cafe!

I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't be able to tell the Z6 photos from the Z7 photos when displayed at such small sizes as when displayed here if you didn't know in advance which camera was used to capture each photo. Even if I would win that bet, that inability to detect the camera model wouldn't necessarily inform your opinion about which one to buy. That's because there are so many factors.

 

[hotrod4x5]

I’ll admit I’ve not verified this, but if you desire high iso, the z6, with larger pixels should be better than the z7. I love my z6, especially at high iso. I truly can’t believe how clean extreme high iso’s are with it. You can’t go wrong with either body, truthfully. Maybe the z6 will leave money for a lens though.

 

[Mike G]

Thankfully all the Z Lenses are very very good!
Unless you need the extra resolution and do you? Then the Z6 will serve you well. One of the reasons I moved to FF was to be able to crop and correct the rotation! It does that for me in spades!

 

[Talos]

Thank you all very much for your answers! I really appreciate your time.

My current camera is a D5100, my first DSLR. After around 10 years of using this really nice camera I want to make a big jump to something more modern and capable.
I don't shoot professionally but for personal-family use but I find it exciting to treat my photography with professional tools (Lightroom & Photoshop).
Regarding my background, I would tag myself as an "advanced amateur" and a "pro" in astrophotography (through telescopes) so I enjoy searching small pixel details in photographs.

I understand how more sensitive is a CCD/CMOS detector with larger pixels (binning in astroimaging) reducing the noise and improving the Signal to Noise ratio considerably, so in my mind the Z6 has an advantage there in theory. My dilemma stands for that I'm thinking "I'm not going to use more than 8000 ISO so why care too much about low light" but maybe I'm judging with my D5100 16MP APC-S sensor which being smaller and with larger pixels can gather light faster and with lower noise than a bigger sensor with smaller pixels.

I know the difference between the Z6 and Z7 is considerable and its true with this money difference I can get more glass.
My initial and current thinking is to order the Z6 with the 50mm 1.8 S lens instead of the 24-70 kit lens as I read is an excellent performer and get maybe the F2.8 zoom some months later. On my D5100 I use a 35mm and 50mm 1.8G and have rarely used the zoom kit lens due to the prime's superior image quality.

 

[gchappel]

This is coming from a guy that has bought toooo much equipment over the years, you can not answer that question without knowing how you are going to use the images. If you are going to post on line and to your instagram account, you do not need the extra resolution. If your idea of a large print is an 8x10" print, you do not need the extra resolution. You will not be able to see the difference. No one else will care. However, if your artistic goal is to have large prints- 20x30", 40x60", maybe larger- then the extra resolution is needed. A painter decides what brushes to use based on the size of his work, experienced photographers do the same. These are tools, nothing more.
High resolution cameras also come with many additional costs. They cost more to purchase. Images cost more to store, as they use more room. Post processing takes longer- costing you time. The highest quality lenses are needed, which also cost more money. I personally just moved to a 61mp camera, these costs are real. However I usually print 20x30" or larger- so for me it is worth it. Probably not worth it for most.
Then we deal with FOMO. The fear of missing out. What if you get a once in a lifetime picture that would make you world famous, if it was only bigger? Well, that is a chance you take, but trust me it is unlikely that will occur. We make these decisions in real life all the time. I needed a truck, so I bought a pickup truck. Maybe once a year I need a big dump truck, but I did not buy one. In real life we buy what we need, that fills most of our needs. Photography can be the same.
As you learn you will also discover there are ways to get more resolution from your camera, in many instances you can shoot multiple image panoramas, stitch them together and have huge images.
Just the fact that you are asking, which is a wise thing to do, makes me suspect you are early in your learning curve. Once you have done this for 50 years you will know what tools you need, your work will tell you.
Get the z6. Spend the extra money learning. Spend the extra money traveling, Spend the extra money on better lenses.
The camera does not make your images interesting. The camera does not make your lighting great. The camera may not even make your images sharp- this is all technique.
Spend the extra money learning. The z6 is so much more camera than we had in the past, it will not hold you back.
Sorry, I rambled on- but I see too many people buying cameras they do not need thinking it will make their images better. It doesn't.
Gary

 

[gryphon1911]

This is coming from a guy that has bought toooo much equipment over the years, you can not answer that question without knowing how you are going to use the images. If you are going to post on line and to your instagram account, you do not need the extra resolution. If your idea of a large print is an 8x10" print, you do not need the extra resolution. You will not be able to see the difference. No one else will care. However, if your artistic goal is to have large prints- 20x30", 40x60", maybe larger- then the extra resolution is needed. A painter decides what brushes to use based on the size of his work, experienced photographers do the same. These are tools, nothing more.
High resolution cameras also come with many additional costs. They cost more to purchase. Images cost more to store, as they use more room. Post processing takes longer- costing you time. The highest quality lenses are needed, which also cost more money. I personally just moved to a 61mp camera, these costs are real. However I usually print 20x30" or larger- so for me it is worth it. Probably not worth it for most.
Then we deal with FOMO. The fear of missing out. What if you get a once in a lifetime picture that would make you world famous, if it was only bigger? Well, that is a chance you take, but trust me it is unlikely that will occur. We make these decisions in real life all the time. I needed a truck, so I bought a pickup truck. Maybe once a year I need a big dump truck, but I did not buy one. In real life we buy what we need, that fills most of our needs. Photography can be the same.
As you learn you will also discover there are ways to get more resolution from your camera, in many instances you can shoot multiple image panoramas, stitch them together and have huge images.
Just the fact that you are asking, which is a wise thing to do, makes me suspect you are early in your learning curve. Once you have done this for 50 years you will know what tools you need, your work will tell you.
Get the z6. Spend the extra money learning. Spend the extra money traveling, Spend the extra money on better lenses.
The camera does not make your images interesting. The camera does not make your lighting great. The camera may not even make your images sharp- this is all technique.
Spend the extra money learning. The z6 is so much more camera than we had in the past, it will not hold you back.
Sorry, I rambled on- but I see too many people buying cameras they do not need thinking it will make their images better. It doesn't.
Gary

Not a ramble at all, but a well thought out and well considered response. I was going to respond with something similar...but to be honest, I doubt I could have said it as eloquently as you did! I shall save my breathe for another thread!! LOL

 

[Mike G]

Thank you all very much for your answers! I really appreciate your time.

My current camera is a D5100, my first DSLR. After around 10 years of using this really nice camera I want to make a big jump to something more modern and capable.
I don't shoot professionally but for personal-family use but I find it exciting to treat my photography with professional tools (Lightroom & Photoshop).
Regarding my background, I would tag myself as an "advanced amateur" and a "pro" in astrophotography (through telescopes) so I enjoy searching small pixel details in photographs.

I understand how more sensitive is a CCD/CMOS detector with larger pixels (binning in astroimaging) reducing the noise and improving the Signal to Noise ratio considerably, so in my mind the Z6 has an advantage there in theory. My dilemma stands for that I'm thinking "I'm not going to use more than 8000 ISO so why care too much about low light" but maybe I'm judging with my D5100 16MP APC-S sensor which being smaller and with larger pixels can gather light faster and with lower noise than a bigger sensor with smaller pixels.

I know the difference between the Z6 and Z7 is considerable and its true with this money difference I can get more glass.
My initial and current thinking is to order the Z6 with the 50mm 1.8 S lens instead of the 24-70 kit lens as I read is an excellent performer and get maybe the F2.8 zoom some months later. On my D5100 I use a 35mm and 50mm 1.8G and have rarely used the zoom kit lens due to the prime's superior image quality.

Talos, don’t dismiss the Z 24-70 f4, it is superb and cheaper and lighter than the f2.8 zoom, and if bought as part of a kit the f4 zoom really cheap, but really very good! Plus if you get the FTZ adapter as part of the kit you can use all your F Mount lenses to boot!

 

[Palouse]

Just about everything I was thinking of sharing has been said, and by people who really know what they are talking about.
I love my Z6. I was reluctant adopter and it truly knocked my socks off, and still does. I kept my D850 and associated F lenses for landscapes and big prints, but the camera rarely sees the light of day—The Z6 and 24-70 f/4 ar that good!

 

[MNglass]

I'm in the Z6 camp here, and I have both (don't ask).

A couple of thoughts - you don't say which 35mm you have (I mention this because most folks with a DX camera have the 35mm DX) but any DX lens will reduce the Z6 resolution to a bit over 10mpx as it forces the Z cameras to use DX resolution. Your 50mm will maintain the the full Z resolution.

As others have mentioned, you really should get the 24-70 f4 as it is a bargain if bought as a kit. It is in a different league than any DX zoom lenses and probably gives most G primes a run for their money at equivalent apertures.

And by all means, get the 50mm Z. It is a great lens and will spoil you quickly.

 

[Panther]

If I had the $$$, get the Z 7.
I say this as a Z 6 owner.

However, I did spend quite a bit of $ on glass instead of getting a Z 7

 

[Talos]

I'm in the Z6 camp here, and I have both (don't ask).

A couple of thoughts - you don't say which 35mm you have (I mention this because most folks with a DX camera have the 35mm DX) but any DX lens will reduce the Z6 resolution to a bit over 10mpx as it forces the Z cameras to use DX resolution. Your 50mm will maintain the the full Z resolution.

As others have mentioned, you really should get the 24-70 f4 as it is a bargain if bought as a kit. It is in a different league than any DX zoom lenses and probably gives most G primes a run for their money at equivalent apertures.

And by all means, get the 50mm Z. It is a great lens and will spoil you quickly.

Thank you very much. Any insight of why you proposed the Z6 ? I'd be glad to know.

Yes, regarding the 35mm I have the DX lens. I am actually thinking to move to an entirely Z mount lenses over time as I don't own other F lenses other than these I mentioned.

I have this dilemma:
Buy the Z6 with the 24-70 f/4 and the 50mm 1.8 S later,

or

Buy the Z6 body with the 50mm f/1.8S and skip the zoom for now.

I was leaning to the second option but you guys make me rethink..

 

[gryphon1911]

As a Z6 owner from launch, I will say that I have no regrets. I do not need the extra resolution, and the price of the Z6/D800 series cameras just doesn’t make sense for me.

I’ll second the mention of the 24-70/4S lens. It is awesome for the price in the kit. I use it for all kinds of things from street to portrait. It is a nice size as well.

I’m one of those people that find that once a camera gets so small, it becomes too much of a burden to get to the buttons and hold the camera comfortably. The Z6/Z7 are almost there. I ordered the small rig l bracket for it. I removed the “l” part of the bracket and kept the grip and bottom plate on. It is now protected and the perfect size. My pinkie does not drop off the bottom of the body.

my extended thoughts:

https://bestlightphotoblog.wordpres...0-4s-z-mount-lens-impressions-musings-review/

 

[Mike G]

Talos, as others have said in this topic. The Z 24-70mm is too much of a bargain to pass up seriously. It works out at least in the U.K. to cost less than half price. part-ex or sell your DX camera and lens when you are ready to purchase the Z 50mm. That of course is a recommendation, you don’t say where you are from?
It’s always good to know where the enquirer is from as it allows targeted advice!

 

[Palouse]

As a Z6 owner from launch,

Andrew is one of the reasons I own a Z6 and the fabulous SmallRig L-bracket.
In addition to the kit lens, I also have the 50 f/1.8, which is truly an amazing lens. Paired with a set of Meike extension rings ($40) and I have a wonderful but affordable close-up lens. The FTZ adaptor lets me use my F-mount glass (Nikon 16-35, f/4; 70-200, f/4; and 200-500, f/5.6. The later 2 pair very well with a 1.4 TC.
Check out the dedicated postings for the Z6/7 here at Nikon Cafe (https://www.nikoncafe.com/forums/nikon-z-mirrorless-forum.120/) particularly the Resources tab.
Cheers.

 

[Talos]

Thanks again very much guys!

@Mike G , I am from Greece ( Talos is a forum nickname - was an ancient mythic robot )
I am thinking to purchase from Amazon.de as it seems to me to be the best combination of reliable store/good price. Its around the same price if I purchase the kit lens or the body with the 50mm 1.8 S. I'm thinking that the 2000$ 24-70 f/2.8 would be a more mature future proof option if I want one zoom, but on the other hand its a huge cost for a similar image quality with the kit lens. Its a valid point to not lose the kit lens, I tend to agree.

@Palouse I agree! I will also certainly purchase the small-rig L-bracket, looks a nice addition to the system for rigidity and protection.

 

[gryphon1911]

This might help with the smallRig as well.

https://bestlightphotoblog.wordpress.com/2019/02/20/smallrig-l-bracket-for-nikon-z6-review/

 

[MNglass]

Thank you very much. Any insight of why you proposed the Z6 ? I'd be glad to know.

Yes, regarding the 35mm I have the DX lens. I am actually thinking to move to an entirely Z mount lenses over time as I don't own other F lenses other than these I mentioned.

I have this dilemma:
Buy the Z6 with the 24-70 f/4 and the 50mm 1.8 S later,
or
Buy the Z6 body with the 50mm f/1.8S and skip the zoom for now.

I was leaning to the second option but you guys make me rethink..

There's no right answer on this. Some folks are prime shooters and will work with a 35 and 85mm lens for years. I keep buying primes mostly because I started out with them, but when I take a camera on a trip, I always use a zoom. That's just me.

I originally had the 35mm Z but found for my uses I couldn't tell the images apart from the 24-70 f4 and almost never used the 35 below f4 anyway - so I sold it. The 50mm Z IQ is really on another level and is just so much fun to use I don't think it is redundant for me.

On my 2880 x 1800 monitor I can't tell the difference between my Z6 and Z7 images. There are innumerable factors that go into a striking or even just a memorable image and I think that resolution, in my opinion, is probably not even in the top 10 important ones - especially today with the sophisticated sensors in all these cameras. Skill, opportunity, lenses, skill (again), practice are all more critical than sheer resolution. That's why I suggested the Z6 over the Z7.

 

[Clix Pix]

Definitely it is important to think about the kinds of subjects you like to shoot, the kinds of environments in which you shoot, etc., as that will help clarify what lens(es) would best suit the purpose. Back in November I purchased a new camera, but prior to that I spent well over a year paying conscious attention to what I liked to shoot, the kinds of subjects I tended to go for, the situations and environments in which I tend to shoot, etc. I knew I wanted full-frame, as I had been using full-frame in the past, but faced with choices about resolution and of course lenses, I really thought about whether or not I should go with a camera body which has high resolution or if I would be wasting my money. Since I like to shoot macro and closeups more than any other kind of shooting, I decided in the end that the high resolution would be very useful, especially if I needed to crop, and that the high resolution would definitely bring out and retain detail. My purchase choice, then, was the higher-resolution body, plus a couple of macro lenses (I was switching systems, so starting all over with lenses) in addition to a 135mm f/1.8 prime, and have since then added a long zoom and a couple of fast lenses as well.

All that said, though, in the end, yes, it is the photographer's technique, skill and creativity in taking the photos which can make the difference between a so-so image and a knock-your-socks-off image. I've seen some fantastic images shot with cell phone cameras. Editing and retouching skills are also an important part of the process, too, but they play a supporting role, so to speak, by adding final touches to images.

Good luck with your decision-making and purchase!