Thank you for the clarification.
One change I would like to see at the Nikon Cafe for 2011
- Thread starter stayathomedad
- Start date
Thank you for the clarification.
The problem I have with this is ... is that I would rather focus on the merits of the images themselves as opposed to how a person gets to that end result.
There seems to be too much focus on the technical aspect, post process and equipment, as opposed to the actual composition and content of the resulting images. One change I would like to see is more focus on the images themselves as opposed to how we achieved the image technically or which equipment was used.
There is no exif data on the images I post on the cafe and I kinda/sorta don't even want to answer a simple question in regards to what lens or camera I used for the very simple reason that it isn't relevant to the images themselves or how I achieved them.
Case in point this barista picture below... all you need to know is everything was set manually ... even the white balance and shot with Nikon equipment ... with the same equipment could you achieve this image or would you have captured it in this manner or differently? This is what you need to ask yourself.
I have a series of pictures captured on the same day with the same camera and lens all with the same camera settings, captured by two different people using the very same equipment in the same conditions getting two very different results.
It took me years to get to where I am today and I will help anyone along the way who comes and spend a day or two with me. It is by doing and trying very simple things that one improves ... but you have to find your feet by trying different things for yourself - when I found my feet was when I sold a lot of lenses and started working with way less equipment and focused on improving the composition to match my vision of what I was capturing, only when I did let go of my focus on the tools used... did my results improve.
Forget how to and the whatyoumighcallit everything else attached to it and focus on the images themselves, the rest will fall into place. A silly yet simple concept which works, is first and foremost use the manual settings on your camera and get an older AI-S lens or two with manual focus ... rediscover (or discover) what exposure is and how it works... intuitively (with the help of an incident light meter) and take hundreds of images a week, practice makes perfect.
I read somewhere that it takes about 10,000 hours of dedicated times to become a professional, that is a full time job for 5 years and it does sound pretty accurate.
Have you ever thought that how people do it, might not work for you?
Sorry to be the contrarian on this one, good idea for some but might not be the best overall ... think about price versus cost... the price might seem low but the cost at the end will be exorbitant where as when you focus on results with what you have you keep the price down and cost low yet your overall satisfaction increases greatly, cost not only in dollars but on energy spent chasing something that just might not work for you image wise.
There is nothing more frustrating than using someone else's settings and post process only to not be able to achieve the same great results they get.
There was a moment when everything fell into place for me, the moment it clicked and made sense was the moment I stopped focusing on the equipment and post processing tools and turned my energy on capturing better images for the sake of capturing better images for myself.
P.S.: My first name is Patrick and my good friends call me Sushi...
This image below was captured in all manual settings as well... my only focus was the composition but for this image to happen I practiced for hours so when the opportunity presented itself I seized it knowing it was going to be just right without having to retake it or chimp to make sure since I know how the camera would captured it based on how I set it.
View attachment 819738
There seems to be too much focus on the technical aspect, post process and equipment, as opposed to the actual composition and content of the resulting images. One change I would like to see is more focus on the images themselves as opposed to how we achieved the image technically or which equipment was used.
There is no exif data on the images I post on the cafe and I kinda/sorta don't even want to answer a simple question in regards to what lens or camera I used for the very simple reason that it isn't relevant to the images themselves or how I achieved them.
Case in point this barista picture below... all you need to know is everything was set manually ... even the white balance and shot with Nikon equipment ... with the same equipment could you achieve this image or would you have captured it in this manner or differently? This is what you need to ask yourself.
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
I have a series of pictures captured on the same day with the same camera and lens all with the same camera settings, captured by two different people using the very same equipment in the same conditions getting two very different results.
It took me years to get to where I am today and I will help anyone along the way who comes and spend a day or two with me. It is by doing and trying very simple things that one improves ... but you have to find your feet by trying different things for yourself - when I found my feet was when I sold a lot of lenses and started working with way less equipment and focused on improving the composition to match my vision of what I was capturing, only when I did let go of my focus on the tools used... did my results improve.
Forget how to and the whatyoumighcallit everything else attached to it and focus on the images themselves, the rest will fall into place. A silly yet simple concept which works, is first and foremost use the manual settings on your camera and get an older AI-S lens or two with manual focus ... rediscover (or discover) what exposure is and how it works... intuitively (with the help of an incident light meter) and take hundreds of images a week, practice makes perfect.
I read somewhere that it takes about 10,000 hours of dedicated times to become a professional, that is a full time job for 5 years and it does sound pretty accurate.
Have you ever thought that how people do it, might not work for you?
Sorry to be the contrarian on this one, good idea for some but might not be the best overall ... think about price versus cost... the price might seem low but the cost at the end will be exorbitant where as when you focus on results with what you have you keep the price down and cost low yet your overall satisfaction increases greatly, cost not only in dollars but on energy spent chasing something that just might not work for you image wise.
There is nothing more frustrating than using someone else's settings and post process only to not be able to achieve the same great results they get.
There was a moment when everything fell into place for me, the moment it clicked and made sense was the moment I stopped focusing on the equipment and post processing tools and turned my energy on capturing better images for the sake of capturing better images for myself.
P.S.: My first name is Patrick and my good friends call me Sushi...
This image below was captured in all manual settings as well... my only focus was the composition but for this image to happen I practiced for hours so when the opportunity presented itself I seized it knowing it was going to be just right without having to retake it or chimp to make sure since I know how the camera would captured it based on how I set it.
View attachment 819738
Sometimes I show a before and after when I feel like teaching, but it requires much more effort. It's similar to preparing a lesson plan. I have to create a before and after photo, then include the steps I took to reach that goal. This often takes over an hour to create a post.
The time it takes it worth it for those interested, but many members just want to see a nice final product.
The time it takes it worth it for those interested, but many members just want to see a nice final product.
Thanks Bryan! Having a name helps me communicate because ... well, "you" i just so impersonal, ya know.
As photography is a mixture of technical and artistic activities, I think that *sometimes* it is good to see what a photo looks like prior to processing it, and other times, the technical details have nothing to do with why the photo is posted.
It's a matter of purpose. Way back when I administered here, we tried numerous things to get people who were into the tech side of things to engage more - we had the Critique forum where 'mentors' were available to give technical help, and we tried Tutiki, a collection of tutorials, among other things. Both of these efforts failed, due to lack of interest and participation. The reason was it took additional work to be involved in those things.
The lesson I have taken from this is that the way things are on this and other forums is due to people finding their own level of comfort and interest. Some of the folks on this thread (and I'm sure, many who have not posted in it) are interested in delving into the hows of photography.
So here is my suggestion: start a new thread, maybe call it Before and After, and post exactly what you have described here: a shot that you like before you process it and after you are done. Explain what you did, or leave a mystery. Invite others to join you in the thread. Then gauge the level of interest.
Where to post? I dunno - perhaps the Miscellany forum would be a good one, since the subject of the posts could be varied. If nobody wants to put in the effort then it'll die and you will know. On the other hand if it's a hit, then who knows ... perhaps it'll be the Cafe's next big meme!
As photography is a mixture of technical and artistic activities, I think that *sometimes* it is good to see what a photo looks like prior to processing it, and other times, the technical details have nothing to do with why the photo is posted.
It's a matter of purpose. Way back when I administered here, we tried numerous things to get people who were into the tech side of things to engage more - we had the Critique forum where 'mentors' were available to give technical help, and we tried Tutiki, a collection of tutorials, among other things. Both of these efforts failed, due to lack of interest and participation. The reason was it took additional work to be involved in those things.
The lesson I have taken from this is that the way things are on this and other forums is due to people finding their own level of comfort and interest. Some of the folks on this thread (and I'm sure, many who have not posted in it) are interested in delving into the hows of photography.
So here is my suggestion: start a new thread, maybe call it Before and After, and post exactly what you have described here: a shot that you like before you process it and after you are done. Explain what you did, or leave a mystery. Invite others to join you in the thread. Then gauge the level of interest.
Where to post? I dunno - perhaps the Miscellany forum would be a good one, since the subject of the posts could be varied. If nobody wants to put in the effort then it'll die and you will know. On the other hand if it's a hit, then who knows ... perhaps it'll be the Cafe's next big meme!
If someone wants to know the technical details of a photo why want to keep them "secret" and hide behind the argument that it doesn't matter? Of course it matters and that's why the lens lust and gear section of this site is so active! Some people will always be more gear oriented than others, in photography just like with every other hobby. Is that a problem? More importanty, is that YOUR problem?
Personally I don't like to be told what I need to know and what I need to ask myself, thank you very much. I'm sure I'm not the only one at that …
Sure photography isn't only technical but it does play a big role especially when you start, less so the more you go. I know that I don't ask myself what gear a fellow PJ used when I look at his photo but is that because I can almost instinctively know through experience or because I really don't care (or both)?
If people want to know what were the settings than telling them that they don't need to know and that they need to ask themselves something else serves no real purpose I think. They'll still want to know the technical aspects of the photo, so why not just tell them and be done with it? :wink:
I think you are taking this too seriously. What he wants to divulge about his photographs is up to him isn't it?:wink:
He definitely does what he wants, no issue there John. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Though I sort of understand what Patrick means I just don't see what the big deal is in telling someone my setting if it makes him happy, that's all.
Anyway. I'll just move on and be glad that I don't have that problem as no one ever asks me. :biggrin:
Though I sort of understand what Patrick means I just don't see what the big deal is in telling someone my setting if it makes him happy, that's all.
Anyway. I'll just move on and be glad that I don't have that problem as no one ever asks me. :biggrin:
I just decided to no longer answer the question nor talk about what I use or how I use it when most people in the past couple of years have been more interested in the lenses I used than anything else in regards to the images I shared.
At one point I was very active on the lens lust forum, now I am into other aspects of photography, that's life.
You don't like being told what you need to know and I don't like being constantly asked what lens I used or what my camera settings were when it comes to my images, a ... it is a little like saying 'your camera takes great pictures..." there is always a little more than a lens and camera setting behing each of my run of the mill images. IMHO, answering the question will not make a difference in a person' end result.
Happy new year to you too :wink:
I agree withj others that the retouching and processing section is where that should go. People already post photos they would like suggestions on whar others would do and, many will PP and say what they did. As Greg said it takes alot of time to post the process on here, I have a hard enough time just motivating to do PP as it is.
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