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Printed Images TOO DARK with CS~CS2

Discussion in 'General Technical Discussion' started by jfenton, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    My monitor profile is updated weekly.....the colors are perfect on my prints, however, I need to boost the brightness prior to printing with CS or CS2 anywhere from 6-10 in order to achieve an output that matches what I soft proof (using paper profiles) on my monitor.

    My PS Gamma is set to 2.2...is it as simple as changing that to a lesser value?

    If so, what will this do to my images when displayed on the web? Will they now be too bright? Currently, everyone thinks that they look pretty much as they should.

    Thanks in advance!
  2. eng45ine


    May 11, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Thanks for beginning this thread, Jim...I have the same problem now that I am using CS2 with an Epson R1800. I'll be monitoring the thread for some solutions as well.
  3. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Hi Frank

    I'm gladd it's just not me!

    Actually....I find I prefer CS over CS2. For some reason the noise seems to get bumped in my CS2 sharpening routine and everything just looks a bit more harsh, no matter what I do?
  4. eng45ine


    May 11, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Jim...there I times I prefer Elements 3 instead of CS 2 because of certain issues. Papa85 (Tony) is tutoring me on the fine art of navigating through CS 2...I think that he either has to move closer to my house or I need to move closer to his!
  5. Baywing


    Feb 22, 2005
    CT USA
    For me, the problem is the R1800. I have my monitor profiled and everything is great except the prints from the R1800, they are too dark. If I lighten them up to print better, the web files are way too light. Lot's of folks I know have the same issue with the R1800. I'm tempted to try Cathie's profiles, but not sure it will resolve this issue. I've been looking for paper profile updates from Epson, but they seem to think everything is ok. My older Photo 1200 prints fine, what I see is what I get. I'm using PS7, BTW, so it might be an Epson deal as opposed to CS vs CS2.
  6. jgrove


    Apr 13, 2005
    Hi Jim, gald you brought this subject up, my printer is pretty old now (PSC 750 from HP) but i always seem to have to brighten images up before printing, i always thought it was the printer becuase my monitor is calibrated with ColorPlus.

    Maybe i need a new printer, can someone email my wife and let her know?! LOL
  7. jfrancis


    May 8, 2005
    Orlando, FL
    I have no problem with my R1800. However, I use QImage to handle the printing color management, which is set to OFF in the printer driver.
  8. petert053


    Nov 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    ...yeah... ditto for me too (except I have an Epson RX500)...

    In the end, I've given up printing from CS and do it from my ACDSee interface. For some reason, it matches my prints and monitor really well. And, it keeps me from doing what I had been doing - saving special PSD files for my print versions with brightness layers cranked up to compensate...

  9. I've made the same transition from PS7 to CS1 to CS2 with no problems. In addition to profiling the monitor do you (all) have the printer/paper calibrated? I say that because if you don't have CS2 (or whatever version) using the paper/printer profile it will use the profile supplied with CS2, which may be different from PS7's.

    For example, I have Cathy's Profiles for the Epson 2200 for:
    1. Premium Gloss Paper
    2. Premium Semi-Gloss Paper
    3. Enhanced Matte Paper

    Each profile costs $40.00 and is worth every penny. Cathy uses Gretag Macbeth's. She provides three color charts for each profile along with instructions on setting your Epson so that it applies "NOTHING" to the image. Color management is turned off..period. You print the three sheets and mail them to her and she emails you the profile.

    In CS2 when you print with preview under "Color Handling" select "Let Photoshop Determine Colors." Then under "Printer Profile" you use the profile supplied by the custom profiler. For rendering intent I use Relative Colorimetric and select Black Point Compression.

    The when I select, Print, then Proceed, then Epson 2200, then Properties for the Epson 2200 I select Photo, Paper Type appropriate to match the profile (e.g. Enhanced Matte, correct size, then "Advanced."

    In the Advanced Main window I make sure the paper is correct, 720 DPI (1440 is overkill and uses lots of ink), paper size is correct, orientation is correct, high speed off, edge smoothing off,Color Management is ICM (which brings up a new sub-window in which ICC Profile "No color Adjustment" is selected. This exactly the same I've used for PS7, CS1 and CS2.
  10. general


    Apr 30, 2005
    No problem with Epson 2200

    Sounds like the problem may be with the printer profile. I do not have to lighten my prints using CS2 and the Epson 2200 printer with the Epson profiles. I am quite pleased with the results.
  11. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Hi General

    I'm using Epsom's profiles on the 2200 and I've also purchased profiles and still have the same issues.

    Color is perfect...print is to dark.

    Across the board, no matter what profile or paper, I need to use anywhere from +6 to +10 prior to printing in the brightness menu in order to achieve what I get on screen when soft proofing.
  12. Just for what it is worth:
    I have a Canon PIXMA ip8500 printer. I use only one ink / paper combination (canon ink and Canon Photo Paper Pro paper) and had a profile made for it by Cathy's.
    I do all my printing with QImage. I did make a few test prints with PS CS and you cannot see any difference between the prints at all (this with the interpolation disabled in QImage of course).
  13. I have the same problem between my 23" Apple Cinema Display and my Canon i9900 printer. It is only a slight problem, about 1/2 of a stop. I chalked it up to the difference between transmitted light on the display and reflected light on the print and just adjust accordingly.
  14. general


    Apr 30, 2005


    I forgot to mention: my results are almost exclusively using Epson Premium Luster or InkJetArt Micro Luster and PhotoBlack Ink.
  15. genera


    Oct 6, 2005
    jim and Frank,

    I can't offer any specific help but I do know this problem has been brought up several times on DPReview. If you haven't already resolved your issues try a search of the printer forum at http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1003 for "dark prints", you'll come up with a number of links that might be helpful.

    Gene A.
  16. petert053


    Nov 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Printer Profiles

    ...hmmm... do you have a link for these prepared profiles? Is this the link:
  17. JeffKohn


    Apr 21, 2005
    Houston, TX
    Those of you with "dark" prints, what luminance level do you calibrate your monitor to? It may be that your monitor is just too bright. The Eye One software recommends 100 Cd/m^2 for CRT, and even higher for LCD (120 or 140 I believe). In my experience this is too bright, I calibrate my CRT monitor to 85 Cd/m^2. Inicidentally, prints from my Canon i960 (using custom profiles) match quite well.

    Another thing to consider is the role of ambient light. Less ambient light will make a monitor look brighter, but will have the opposite effect on prints (duh). So if you have fairly low lighting levels in your computer room that might not be the best place to judge prints.

    Having said all that I seem to recall some discussions about the R1800 indicating there may have been some issues with dark prints that were either addressed with newer profiles or a change to the gamma setting (don't recall for sure since I don't have that printer).
  18. sfoxjohn


    May 1, 2005
    Marlton, NJ
    I do the same as Rich Gibson with my 2200. I also can recommend Cathy's Profiles. Before I bought her profile for enhanced matte, very often the greens in trees would just look like green mash - no detail. All OK now. I feel that I have gotten my $40 back just on saved materials.
  19. Commodorefirst

    Commodorefirst Admin/Moderator Administrator

    May 1, 2005
    Just to add my thoughts, On my 23" display I ended up turning the brightness way way down, under 100cd and it made all the difference in the world. I have everything set to gamma 2.2 even though I am a mac, and I end up printing from apple preview or i-view instead of CS. I just get the print ready, resized, and in the right colorspace in CS and I have not had any problems matching, or matching lab outputs and their color profiles once I had my monitor dialed in.

    The key for me was getting my monitor color calibrated, and turning it Down in luminance!

    For your thoughts,


    ps I don't own a high end printer at home, but use the 2200 at work, printing from apple preview and never even opening PS. The work matches my monitor fine with my slelcted papers.
  20. I use CS2 and an Epson R1800,

    In addition to "let Photoshop Determine Colors", so the driver does not change colors, I have the "View" set as follows in CS2...

    View -- Proof Setup -- Custom
    Device to Simulate - set to the paper profile (downloaded from Epsons site)
    Rendering - Relative Colormetric
    Black Point Compensation - checked.
    All other checkboxes unchecked.

    My R1800 output is very close to the monitor, in fact, a little lighter in some reds.

    I also have 5000 degree "springy" florescent replacement bulbs, sometimes called Daylight bulbs, in my room lights so I get a color more like sunlight instead of incadescent.
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