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Question for Iliah re: Raw Magic Highlight Revcovery

Discussion in 'General Technical Discussion' started by jfenton, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA
    Hi Illiah...

    I bought it...I use it...but I'm not yet using it for the real reason I purchased it...which was to be able to utilize the full dynamic range of specific shots and to be able to recover slightly blown highlights if possible.

    If I open a NEF normally and then push the full dynamic range button I see no difference?

    Also...is there a tutorial or some way that I could learn what part of the curve to pull in order to recover the blown highlights to whatever extent possible?

    Thanks in advance :lol:
  2. I thought once you blew highlights they were gone. How can you recapture blown or lost highlights?
  3. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    Hm. First of all, I think we should ask the Moderators is it an appropriate place for discussing our programs...
  4. 1. It ain't called Raw Magick for nothing....
    2. Peter and Iliah can give more detail, but as I understand it there is actually more data in the RAW than you get to via the other rendering engines, including Capture.

    This may sound like a plug, and frankly it is, but I first met Iliah on the forums over a year ago and he performed some unbelievable magic, at least to me, on an incredibly under-exposed, horribly noisy, ISO 3200, mixed lighting image of my dog at an agility meet. And if I am not mistaken, some of that work is now showing up, at least from some work I did on that image last night with Raw Magick it sure looks like it.

    As I say, these fellows are doing some really cool stuff, keep watching. You can also see the benefit of having Iliah about, just look at the WB info we are seeing. My problem is understanding what he is telling us, I'm just too danged dense sometimes :oops:  :lol:
  5. I sure hope it is, since I just did :oops:  .

    I am going to go and do that now......
  6. PGB


    Jan 25, 2005
    Please Ilah, go ahead. We need your support. I'm interested in getting your product anyway and am sure I'll have plenty of questions too.

    I have no problem with discussing commercial products on this board as we will all benefit in the end.

  7. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA

    And if he says no, I'm gonna tell his wife everything!

  8. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA

    Now..please feel free to address my question if you are comfortable in doing so.

    You may reference the separate thread I initiated whereby I asked for the permission of the moderators.
  9. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    With Royal permission, and Divine blessing, here goes:

    What beta version are you on now? is it 0.951? "Full flask" button to the right - that is full dynamic range button, right?

    If there are no highlights blown, the difference can be very small, in devil [did I just say devil? - I mean detail].

    We always provide all the details in HDR (high dynamic range) mode. You do not need to make any adjustments to recover more. But if you have an empty gap to the right on the histogram, delete all the intermediate points, and push the upper right anchor point to the left, in horizontal direction, until histogram will start to approach right boundary. Watch for highlight tints, if they start to appear aggressively, pull the point a little back.
  10. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    If you look at RAW data, as it comes from the camera, you will see that there is some information in the areas that seem to be blown out.

    Here are couple of reasons why diferent raw converters have different tolerance to blown highlights.

    Let's assume in 12-bit RAW file (4095 is the maximum value that can be represented with 12 bits) we have RGB highlight values 4000, 4000, 4000. We need to apply typical white balance for daylight, that is multiply R by 2.8, and B by 1.2 (numbers are for D2h). Now, we need to make gamma correction. Let's say gamma is 2.2 If we normalize by 12 bits, we are getting as a result
    ((4000/4095)*2.8 )(1/2.2)*255 = 403;

    that is - we have overflow. So, normalization and number of bits used for result determine precision of highlight manipulations.

    To avoid this, we use different normalization, work in linear gamma, and work in floating point. Slow...
  11. jfenton


    Jan 26, 2005
    Haverhill, MA

    I am in fact using the latest beta version.

    When I get home tonight, I'll sit down with a controlled amount of wine and give it a go, utilizing the directions which you have posted.

    Sincere thanks....I'll let you know how it goes :wink:


    PS...is the Noise Reduction plug-in available for purchase in a full version that doesn't give the little squares? So far, I'm pretty darned impressed with it :lol:
  12. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    Re: Iliah...

    But of course. Right from our site.
  13. Steve S

    Steve S

    Feb 1, 2005
    SE Florida
    RM Lite vs RM Standard?

    Is there is Standard version of RM? I've only heard about this RM Lite. I want to try it, but am not anxious to learn yet another piece of software. Is it easy to use? Also, a link to thge RM site would be good. It's not the easiest thing to find... esp if you don't spell it correctly. :oops: 
  14. JC


    Jan 27, 2005
    Las Vegas, Nevada

    I've just joined the club and ordered Raw Magick. From what I've seen of Peter's work, it certainly seems worth it. Having Bill rave about it and you here helping adds so much to the value.

    On another note, did Phil ban you and Peter again? I don't know what's up with that. You might know, or know of, Michael Tapes, someone I grew up next door to. Michael is the Capture One rep in the US and sells other products on his rawworkflow.com web site, including a couple he developed (Archive Creator, WhiBal). Phil banned him for a few days some time back, even though Michael had sent many emails to Phil asking to advertise on the site. Phil didn't answer, and Michael just announced a new version of something, and BAM! He was gone.

    I'll cut this short by saying that I spend a lot less time over there than I did before, and I'm glad that you're here, and that Patrick and Frank realize that discussions about Raw Magick are a benefit to this site.

  15. I still dont understand what your product does. Sorry. Would like to though. Is it a free standing program, a plug in. Talk in english, not technish, so I can understand. Thanks
  16. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    Re: RM Lite vs RM Standard?

    There will be Pro version, but no standard. I can't comment on ease of use, for me it is the most natural work flow. We have forum for technical support at http://www.rawmagick.us/forum and 2 sites - one .us and one .com Also we maintain beta testers list. As of today, 250+ participants.
  17. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    Stand-alone RAW converter - that's it what is it :) [/quote]
  18. Stand-alone RAW converter - that's it what is it :) [/quote]

    Ok, so you use it to convert a raw file. Does it allow any processing, or do you then open it in PSCS or NC4. I am interested in how it works, but dont understand. I respect the guys that use it here, so am interested
  19. Iliah


    Jan 29, 2005
    It is not Photoshop, it is "developer" (like in film) - curve, white balance (including multi-zone, where you can adjust wb separately for highlights, midtones, and shadows), memory colours (one-click skin types, sky, hair, etc - user-expandable), noise control, b/w conversion plug-in. It is Open Architecture project, that is tools for adding plug-ins are free, and we already have a third-party plug-in for noise reduction from Moscow State University. Soon we will add printing module, and extend plug-in base with our own modules.
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