Raw color question

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Hey folks.

I searched a bit but couldnt really find the answers to my questions

Easy question --> When shooting RAW with my D90 does the picture control (vivid, standard, etc) have any effect with the result?

My impression so far is... NO.

am i correct in this?

I recently started shooting Raw. The images a look a little bit subdued and dull compared to the Jpegs.
 
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You are correct, in that picture controls do not affect raw images which come out of your camera in the way they affect jpeg images that come out of your camera.

Having said that, in order to view a raw file (using whatever raw converter you are using), some sort of translation is still occurring between the raw file and the image you see on your screen. If you use a raw converter which does support picture controls (e.g. Capture NX and ACR), then you can achieve the same effect but in a reversible way. Whereas, if you have already applied the picture control via the camera and only have a jpeg to show for it, then the process is no longer reversible.
 
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Following on from Seyil.
A jpeg from your camera (and that is what you see on the LCD) is a Nikon processing of the raw sensor data including any camera settings. Once it is processed that is that basically except for manipulation after the fact.
With raw (NEF) files the sensor data is stored in a TIFF type container and the camera settings can be applied by software if the software can or chooses to use them. Nikons software does read and use the camera settings.
Adobe chooses not to use the camera setting notes as they are not openly documented and so has come up with Camera Profiles for use in Lightroom or Photoshops ACR. These profiles mimic Nikons settings and are available for most Nikon and Canon models.
So if you are using an Adobe product for your NEF's you can apply a variety of profiles as well as any other develop settings that suit your taste.
 
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So shooting RAW + JPEG, the camera settings will still stay with the JPEG and not the RAW? Or do the camera settings only stay when shooting JPEG only?
 
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So shooting RAW + JPEG, the camera settings will still stay with the JPEG and not the RAW? Or do the camera settings only stay when shooting JPEG only?
I suspect you may not fully understand what RAW files are. No matter how how shoot RAW files will never reflect the settings you choose (though using a Nikon software will allow you to apply the jpg settings to the RAW whereas third party software will have to interpret those settings).

A RAW file is just that, raw …
 
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I suspect you may not fully understand what RAW files are. No matter how how shoot RAW files will never reflect the settings you choose (though using a Nikon software will allow you to apply the jpg settings to the RAW whereas third party software will have to interpret those settings).

A RAW file is just that, raw …
Julien, I suspect you didn't understand my question, so let me restate it differently.

When shooting RAW + JPEG, do camera settings still REMAIN with the JPEGS. My question wasn't about the RAW files, it was regarding the JPEGS.

I understand RAW...and I understand JPEG. I just don't fully understand what the camera does and does not do to JPEGS, or when it does and does not do it.

Shoot JPEG - camera settings stay with file.

Shoot RAW + JPEG - does camera settings stay with the JPEG?
 
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> Adobe chooses not to use the camera setting notes as they are not openly documented

Strange excuse, NEF format itself is not openly documented too.
 
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> RAW files will never reflect the settings you choose

What about Active D-Lighting and ISO settings?
 
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The camera settings are cooked(rendered to a color space) into the jpegs and any editing to them is destructive, as editing any jpeg is destructive. So short answer is yes, the camera settings stay with the jpeg. Camera settings to raw are simply instructions which can be applied when you use Capture since in is the only softwear that can read those settings. A program like ACR(which is what I use) cannot read those settings but has its own renditions which can be applied and since it's raw, is not destructive.
 
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When shooting RAW + JPEG, do camera settings still REMAIN with the JPEGS. My question wasn't about the RAW files, it was regarding the JPEGS.
In order to produce a JPEG, some form of translation must be done to the RAW data that was collected by the sensor. The settings used by your camera will indeed be applied when this JPEG file is created.

These camera settings do not "remain" with the JPEG, if I'm understanding your use of the term. It is something that plays a role when the conversion between RAW and JPEG is done, but once it is done, it is not something that lives in the JPEG per se. You now have a JPEG, and you cannot "get rid of" these camera settings, as the term "remain" might imply.

Iliah said:
What about Active D-Lighting and ISO settings?
I don't quite understand completely how Active D-Lighting works, so can't really comment on that.

ISO, on the other hand, has to do with exposure, and is something that will effect both RAW and processed (i.e. JPEG) output from the camera.

Iliah said:
Strange excuse, NEF format itself is not openly documented too.
Blame Nikon, not Adobe. There is a cost associated with having to reverse engineer the format.
 
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> ISO, on the other hand, has to do with exposure,

Not in digital. ISO is a push/pull process over the "base ISO".

Active D-Lighting is exposure compensation applied at the time of shooting, so this can't be un-done even in raw.

> Blame Nikon, not Adobe. There is a cost associated with having to reverse engineer the format.

Tell me :)

Photographers are expecting best possible output from their cameras, no?

However I'd venture Adobe is ignoring many raw tags in various raw formats just because they try to cover as many cameras as they can, skipping on the issues they consider to be minor.
 
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I find that PhaseOne's interpretation on NEF data and user inputs is better than Nikon's for my usage.

there really is nothing to reverse engineer, they just need to hack the digits out of there. anyone making a raw processor would be starting with the same material, Nikon doesn't have any more info just because they made the camera, both would have to characterize it with real world tests.
 
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> Nikon doesn't have any more info just because they made the camera

But they do. They have sensor spectral response top compute colour conversions, sensor data non-linearity to do proper raw data linearization, AA filter properties in both directions to compute necessary sharpening offset, lens data to compensate aberrations and vignetting, lens spectral properties, and so on and so forth.
 
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they had to test for all that to evaluate how well they hit their engineering targets. and probably tested for it again using a different set of targets to develop their process algorithm.

someone else's testing procedure might actually gather data that is more applicable to most photographer's work which would give them the ability to develop better algorithms.
 

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