S5 Vrs D200.

Discussion in 'Other Cool Gear, Camera Bags, Camera Straps' started by slappomatt, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. slappomatt

    slappomatt

    811
    May 13, 2006
    San Diego CA
    what can the D200 do that the S5 cant? other than have 4 extra MP? It does wireless cls and meters with AIS lens correct? so what are the things it doesnt do? I guess its 3Fps instead of 5. is that about it?
     
  2. thrdprophet

    thrdprophet

    684
    May 13, 2007
    Modesto, CA
    3 things I like about the D200 over the S5, that you might also find useful.

    1. When shooting RAW your files on the D200 is about 15 megs at the best resoultion. The S5 on the other hand is a whooping 30 MEGABYTES! when shooting in high dynamic range mode. I'll pass on the 30 megs... thats just ridicoulus by any standard

    2. The D200 can do 5 FPS in any quality settings, if you have a fast card also the buffer is great. The S5 DOES NOT DO 3 FPS. In high dynamic range mode it only does 1.5 fps...

    3. Of course like you mentioned, 10.2 meg vs. 6.13 or so... Can't really crop with 6.13 mp. If your spending about 2 grand, you better give me more than 6 mp.

    Give me the D200 that's just my opinion. However if someone strictly shoots JUST WEDDINGS or portraits, the S5 might work for you.

    San
     
  3. slappomatt

    slappomatt

    811
    May 13, 2006
    San Diego CA
    well I shoot 99% Jpg, and I can see noise past iso 400 w the nikon. I had a D50 before and 6mp is still fine if you dont want to print super large. the FPS is really a bummer on a camera of that price.

    really interested to see what nikon will do next.
     
  4. We all do and judging by the number of people who are jumping ship to Canon (just look at all the firesales in the for sale section) people are getting pretty fed up with waiting.

    To answer your question get an S5 if you shoot mostly weddings or portraits; otherwise get a D200.

    I'm thinking of getting an S5 as a cheaper alternative than switching to Canon.
     
  5. cwilt

    cwilt

    Apr 24, 2005
    Denver, CO
    S5 does CLS. I shoot manual mode a lot so I will have to check the auto exposure modes with the 45P. Resolves about 8mp, not 6. Its not fast as you mentioned. S5 can cover 11 stops of DR that the Nikons can't. At least I haven't found one yet.
     
  6. Does the S5 do 3 FPS in RAW wide-dynamic range or just in jpg mode?

    I was under the impression that the S5 was similar in FPS to the S3 which was wowfully slow in wide-RAW mode.

    Thanks
    Johng
     
  7. cwilt

    cwilt

    Apr 24, 2005
    Denver, CO
    I think its around 2fps in RAW wide DR.
     
  8. SMH77

    SMH77

    746
    Feb 11, 2006
    Illinois
    It does 1.6 fps in Raw mode in 'wide DR' mode, from what I understand. It may be different shooting jpgs, I'm not sure.

    Also, the max resolution does come out at 12 MP (4263 X 2842 pixels). The sharpness of the 100% crop is what some people debate about how many pixels it is 'equivalent to'--again, from what I understand. I do know that I get 4260 X 2840 sized shots shooting RAW with DR at greater than 100%. I can post a full res picture later if interested...


    Sean
     
  9. cwilt

    cwilt

    Apr 24, 2005
    Denver, CO
    I don't think I have ever seen 0.6 of a frame before. Just because it has 12mp doesn't mean it can resolve detail with each pixel.
     
  10. Hi Matt

    if you shoot mostly portraits or wedding (or even landscapes), I think the S5 is the best camera, actually, and I tell you by having the D200, which fits much better for overall and sport use.
    The dynamic range and skin tone rendition are extremely useful with people and nature, I wouldn't underestimate it.
     
  11. SMH77

    SMH77

    746
    Feb 11, 2006
    Illinois
    I understand your points, but I have seen 1.5 frames before so the decimal isn't mine, but what (apparently) Fuji has claimed.

    Regarding the resolution, the largest Raw file size happens to coincide nearly identically with the largest output of the D2X files at 4263 X 2842. As I said earlier, I'll post one for you if you want proof. Apparently they do use data from all the sensors?

    Sean
     
  12. cwilt

    cwilt

    Apr 24, 2005
    Denver, CO
    You are correct about Fuji's specs.

    I have a D2x and know the pixel dimensions. What I am trying to say is that it does not resolve 12mp of detail. Its my understanding that the R and S pixels are blended into a very detailed 6mp image and then interpolated into the 12mp dimensions.
     
  13. Haibane

    Haibane

    838
    Aug 14, 2006
    Smyrna, Georgia
    My biggest complaint is what Charles mentioned the S5 IS a 6mp camera that interpolates. It also has limited shutter speed. So to me I would rather have a company that doesn't lie about its specs and try to cover them up with this awe striking invention of a huge dynamic range.
     
  14. cwilt

    cwilt

    Apr 24, 2005
    Denver, CO
    The pixel dimensions are 6mp but it resolves more detail than a 6mp camera. Not sure what you are talking about with the shutter speed. Its a lie from your perspective. There are 12mp with every raw capture.
     
  15. SMH77

    SMH77

    746
    Feb 11, 2006
    Illinois
    I'm not sure I understand your comments properly. Are you suggesting that Fuji is making up their claim about having more DR? If so I suggest you look at some real world evidence in post # 17 in this thread: https://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/showthread.php?t=124151&page=2

    If not, please clarify so I can understand your post. It seems a little hostile toward Fuji, and I'm not certain why. The DR is real and has been reported through controlled testing in at least 1 report (probably more).

    I'm not saying I love Fuji myself, but there is no denying the larger DR of the S5 when compared against the Nikon bodies. Other's have reported better DR than the Canon bodies as well, but I can't speak from first hand experience on that point.


    Sean
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2017
  16. Haibane

    Haibane

    838
    Aug 14, 2006
    Smyrna, Georgia
    sean, no complaint about DR. they lie about 3fps, its 1.5 at best. they lie about 12mp its interpolated.
     
  17. Any sensor with a bayer filter contains interpolated data.
     
  18. Haibane

    Haibane

    838
    Aug 14, 2006
    Smyrna, Georgia
    Double the size interpolations?
     
  19. SMH77

    SMH77

    746
    Feb 11, 2006
    Illinois
    James,

    I'm not sure why you've got such an attitude/axe to grind with the S5...

    Anyway, if you want to be technical about it, the S5 HAS 12.3 MP's, ok? Physically on an S5 sensor there's over 12 million different pixels: there's 6+ million 'fat' sensors, and 6+ million 'small' sensors--that's how they expand the DR of the sensor.

    Now, after the data is captured from all 12.3 million pixels, the camera's processor does some 'evaluation' and, in some cases choses data from one set of sensors over the other to retain information that was lost in the other set of sensors (like using the small sensors in bright regions of an image instead of the 'fat' sensors since the smaller sensors don't get burned out like the 'fat' ones do). This a form of what's called 'interpolation' of data. Interpolation goes on all over the place in science and engineering. Dare I even say-no, make that I guarantee-that there is interpolation that goes on in the data processing of every Nikon AND CANON body out there? Have you read any of the tech specs on a Canon body where they brag about 'low noise'? What is one method that they acheive it?

    Let me quote for you from the latest Canon EOS digital for Professionals brouchure since I have it in front of me (page 25, center column all the way at the bottom of the page): "A second-generation, on chip, noise-reduction circuit is provided". I'll stop there and make my point. Do you know what takes place during that 'noise reduction processing'? The computer evaluates the data from a series of pixels looking at trends in the data, signal strength vs noise level, etc and when it sees a discontinuity in a trend, it figures that it was an error--or bad signal (read: noise in the data)--and evaluates the data on either side of that location and 'estimates' what should be in the location of the bad data based upon the 'good' data surrounding it. That process is called interpolation. I'm an engineer and I know very well what interpolation is. I guarantee you that's what's going on in the 'processing' in a Canon camera--or a Nikon camera, etc.

    Don't flip out because Fuji actually mentions the word 'interpolate'--they're simply being honest about what they do with the data from two different sets of sensors that capture data in parallel. That's all. BTW, when the number of pixels being used doubles (from 6 MP to 12 MP) there are a few consequences: the camera's write speed cuts in half, and the file sizes double (if shooting in RAW where all the data is preserved). Nothing magical about it. The Fuji S5, btw, will shoot at 3 fps--if you don't use extended DR. If you feel this is deceptive, then read critically through a Canon brouchure sometime and look at all the footnotes the marketing people have to throw in to 'clarify' their technical claims. For example, did you know there are some--no may I say many situations where the new Canon mk III doesn't acheive 10 fps? It's true! But what does every Canonite (ok, that's a generalization, I admit) on dpreview claim? The marketing garbage that Canon emphasizes: the Canon mk III shoots at 10 fps!

    On another note, I've seen that you're making a concerted effort to call Fuji a bunch of liars in various threads here on the Cafe. Let me say bluntly: Knock it Off!. If you have a serious problem with something about Fuji, then respectfully state your point and ask if your understanding is correct. If you're correct, then leave it at that and don't buy or recommend a Fuji to anyone. But, for Heaven's sake, don't hijack every thread to grind your axe. After all: You could be wrong in your understanding about something, later learn otherwise and realize you've been making unjustified cristicisms about something that you really didn't understand--making you look foolish. I'm speaking from experience here and I'm sure many others have learned the same lesson I speak of from years of experience and times of making bad decisions--I've made a lot of them. Over time learning this lesson builds patience with others, a mind open to hearing out where someone's coming from (while reserving the right to disagree when the other's point is clearly understood), and humility.

    If, on the other hand, you can't resist being abrasive, then there's a wonderful place for you to go be that way: it's call dpreview.com. Many people here have left there for the purpose of having meaningful discussions and avoiding the childish insults of some of the posters there. Please respect the fact that this is a place that people want to keep focused and profitable for all. Thank you.

    Alright, I'll get off my soapbox.

    The Fuji S5 is just another tool available to photographers and it has its own strengths and weaknesses--just like every other camera out there. I for one really applaude Fuji for coming to the market with a different approach to sensor design. These different approaches spark interest and new ideas by competitors which eventually make it into new products. This is how technology advances. They should be commended for that courageous effort--not condemned because they didn't approach it the same way that Nikon or Canon did.

    Anyway, I'm on a business trip right now down in Florida (near Ft. Lauderdale) and I'm starving. It's time to go get some good seafood! :biggrin:

    Respectfully,


    Sean

    Now, it is
     
  20. Haibane

    Haibane

    838
    Aug 14, 2006
    Smyrna, Georgia
    sean, only going based on reviews. Don't mean to baret the company. I like Fuji. Seems your camera is getting 12mp that's good, reveiwers were saying it was only 8-10mp and those two sensors were combining with one being highs and lows.

    Different topic, but still on topic. I remember and still stand by when I was first hearing about the d2h that its 4.1mp was better than the d70's 6.3mp in quality. My question is How does the S5 compare to the D200 at full size shots. Would love to see the two side by side with the d200 blown up to the same size as the S5. I think that would help the general topic of this thread since it is a comparisson
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2007
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