Site update re: converting hotlinked images to attachments automatically

[Desmond]

Then again what is stopping Photobucket doing something we don't want with our images, they have also shown they can change. There are so many things that could go wrong when posting images online that we wouldn't post anywhere if we made provision for each and every one of them.

 

[Bart]

Thanks, all. I'm checking with my hosting to see if increasing storage space (including backup space) will be affordable enough to convert all the existing hotlinked images (probably about 500GB worth of images).

Isn't this going to become an ever growing cost ?
Other than that, I see little issues. Especially since the possibility to edit existing post is now available.
On the other hand, why bother? We already have the choice to hotlink or to attach. Isn't that the best of both ways?

 

[Amin Sabet]

what happens next time the Cafe changes ownership? I understand that you may have no plans to sell or give up ownership now, but I've seen two owners come and go. I imagine they did not plan to give up the Cafe - until they did.

I understand your point, which is valid. However, the next owner, if there is one, could easily convert all hotlinked images to attachments regardless of whether I do so now. In fact, I just realized that DPReview copied over a decade of my hotlinked images to attachments in their forums without so much as notifying me, and I don't see any way to delete my attachments there!

@Desmond is right that there are a ton of ways which internet control of images can go wrong. Another example is how Flickr strips the embedded EXIF from all of their resized versions of your images. If you rely on EXIF copyright notices, they are basically creating tons of orphan works.

What I can say is that if we make this change here and you want to have me remove all your images (nuclear option), I will do so.

 

[photogramps]

Has this been done ... site been down for several hours?

 

[Hawk]

Great idea, Amin. Thank you for offering it. Yes!!

 

[Amin Sabet]

Has this been done ... site been down for several hours?

No, the site was down for server upgrades. One of the upgrades was to put in a larger SSD and larger backup drive, so we now have the ability to do it (without further downtime), but we haven't done it yet.

 

[photogramps]

No, the site was down for server upgrades. One of the upgrades was to put in a larger SSD and larger backup drive, so we now have the ability to do it (without further downtime), but we haven't done it yet.

Thanks ... I'm happy with the change.

 

[Amin Sabet]

It seems most members agree that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I've emailed the whole membership about the TOS change and will go ahead and start the process. It is effective immediately for new posts. Older posts will take a long time to slowly convert hotlinked images to attachments. It will take, at a minimum, days to complete. Possible weeks given that there are almost 4 million posts from the last 12+ years!

EDIT: Posts are being converted in order of date, starting with the oldest ones. Given how long it is taking for the first couple months of posts, I expect the process to take nearly a month.

 

[AlJohnston]

Sounds like a plan

 

[Retief]

Well, Amin, does this mean that the issue I had with the cached images, http vs https, will no longer be an issue? And that if I move stuff around now on my own web site it won't affect what is already showing up here? So in the end I don't do anything differently than I have been doing up until now, just the stuff I did do before than caused strange occurrences won't cause them anymore?

Sounds like a "win win win" to me!

Wait a minute, you can't do this instantaneously???? Sounds like you need faster hardware, and maybe a 20 gigabit internet connection ...

In all seriousness, I see this as a huge service to the community. As to issues of image ownership and such, the sad reality is that anyone running a forum can rip us all off as they see fit. You, at least, have the common decency to do things up front and keeping us informed. I think that you current track record speaks for itself in how you conduct "business on the 'Net".

 

[Amin Sabet]

Well, Amin, does this mean that the issue I had with the cached images, http vs https, will no longer be an issue? And that if I move stuff around now on my own web site it won't affect what is already showing up here? So in the end I don't do anything differently than I have been doing up until now, just the stuff I did do before than caused strange occurrences won't cause them anymore?

You don't have to do anything differently, and all of that will be fixed .

In all seriousness, I see this as a huge service to the community. As to issues of image ownership and such, the sad reality is that anyone running a forum can rip us all off as they see fit. You, at least, have the common decency to do things up front and keeping us informed. I think that you current track record speaks for itself in how you conduct "business on the 'Net".

Many thanks, Bill .

 

[vulturetec]

Completely unacceptable. I will no longer be posting images to this site or any other site related to it.

FWIW other sites that have added this "feature" give users the option to turn it off. In that case I would continue to use the site, otherwise my time here is done.

Thanks.

 

[Desmond]

Just received my email notifying of the links being 'fixed' - thank you for saving me a lot of hassle - I hope blogspot does the same to sort out my photobucket images linked to their site.

 

[Amin Sabet]

Completely unacceptable. I will no longer be posting images to this site or any other site related to it.

Very sorry to hear that. With regards to the images you have already posted here in the past, you have several options:

1) Remove the source (eg, PBase images) before they are converted to attachments (again, the conversion here will be a slow process, estimated to complete in about 4 weeks).
2) Delete your own attachments (after they are created) here using our attachment manager.
3) Have me bulk delete your attachments after the old posts conversion has completed.
4) Have me bulk delete your account along with everything you have ever posted on this site (PMs, posts, images, etc). This can be done at any time, before or after attachments are created.

Please contact me by PM if you want option #3 or #4. Anyone who feels as you do can do the same.

I hope that not many people will choose #4, because deleting threads you've started will also delete posts which others too the time to post in those threads. Ultimately it's up to you, but it would be very much appreciated if you would consider #3 rather than #4.

Also, I am more than happy to refund any subscription fee paid by any member at any time and for any reason. Just PM me with the PayPal address you used to subscribe, and I will take care of it.

FWIW other sites that have added this "feature" give users the option to turn it off.

There may be some sites which do that. For sure there are some that don't. For example, DPReview, the largest photo forum site that I know of, doesn't have any such option. I personally would offer the option here if I could. However, the only two Xenforo addons which do this do not have any such ability to make it optional by user choice. I attempted to pay the developers to add that option and was turned down. I was able to hire them to improve the code so that it would retain links, but that was all they would do.

 

[vulturetec]

There may be some sites which do that. For sure there are some that don't. For example, DPReview, the largest photo forum site that I know of, doesn't have any such option. I personally would offer the option here if I could. However, the only two Xenforo addons which do this do not have any such ability to make it optional by user choice. I attempted to pay the developers to add that option and was turned down. I was able to hire them to improve the code so that it would retain links, but that was all they would do.

I appreciate the information and the notification.

I'm going to consider what I want to do for a bit and PM you with my decision, but most likely will have you cancel my account and delete my posts/threads completely.

We'll see.

 

[photogramps]

4) Have me bulk delete your account along with everything you have ever posted on this site (PMs, posts, images, etc). This can be done at any time, before or after attachments are created.

The ultimate safeguard but a very rare option indeed and as you say, hopefully few if any will choose that option.

 

[vulturetec]

I've deleted almost all my content here and most of the image links I could find. I'll see how things work with the changes and decide later how to proceed with future participation.

A final thought though: as I see it, anyone concerned with broken links has the freedom to upload their content directly to the site, thus avoiding any "broken link" issues. The end result is the same. Other members with my mindset have an option. This "all or nothing" approach denies me that option and forcing it retroactively just makes it worse. In my opinion removing the option is a bad policy.

Enough said.

It bears repeating: I appreciate the alert about the changes and the ability to edit the content of our participation here in so many ways (something that was removed for a long time for reasons that escape me). That's awesome! Thanks.

There appears to be a halfway decent compromise that has already been mentioned: looking at the add-on it appears to merely look for images surrounded by IMG tags. With the correct options toggled (which presumably is the case), if the image is surrounded by URL links to a site or another image, those links will be retained. That's how I've almost always posted images here (small image linked to a full-size one), which will probably continue to work - I'll probably just use smaller images that turn into attachments. We'll see how it works.

 

[kilofoxtrott]

I've deleted almost all my content here and most of the image links I could find. I'll see how things work with the changes and decide later how to proceed with future participation.

A final thought though: as I see it, anyone concerned with broken links has the freedom to upload their content directly to the site, thus avoiding any "broken link" issues. The end result is the same. Other members with my mindset have an option. This "all or nothing" approach denies me that option and forcing it retroactively just makes it worse. In my opinion removing the option is a bad policy.

Enough said.

It bears repeating: I appreciate the alert about the changes and the ability to edit the content of our participation here in so many ways (something that was removed for a long time for reasons that escape me). That's awesome! Thanks.

There appears to be a halfway decent compromise that has already been mentioned: looking at the add-on it appears to merely look for images surrounded by IMG tags. With the correct options toggled (which presumably is the case), if the image is surrounded by URL links to a site or another image, those links will be retained. That's how I've almost always posted images here (small image linked to a full-size one), which will probably continue to work - I'll probably just use smaller images that turn into attachments. We'll see how it works.

Hi Scott,
there is an other reason to attach the pictures...
Remember Rob Zijlstra? He passed away about 3 years ago and had an Smugmug account. He was a very busy poster and moderator in that times. His family wasn't aware that Smugmug asked for a monthly fee. After 3 months his account was deleted. We tried to resurrect his Smugmug account, but it was gone.
Nearly the same happened with Rich Gibson...
Believe me these two guys were proud members of the Café and don't wanted that this happened. Thank God, Mike was quick enough to keep the account alive.

And don't ask me to how many pictures of not so prominent members vanished this way...

Kind regards and I hope you'll stay in the Café
Klaus