Strange lines in the background

Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
8
Hi,



When using a D5300 body with a Tamron 100-400 mm, it was noticed that under certain light conditions, there are sometimes lines that appear in the background, vertically, like here


vertical-2.png
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vertical-4.png
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vertical-6.png
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or, but more rarely, horizontally, like here


horizontal-1.png
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horizontal-2.png
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Usually, the problem does not occur, like here


https://ibb.co/H7hSbcF]
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[/url]


https://ibb.co/ZfpYqtB]
normal-2.png
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[/url]


https://ibb.co/ggby12n]
normal-3.png
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[/url]


https://ibb.co/YQNN2Rg]
HDG.jpg
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[/url]



It is normal or not and where the problem comes from ?



The problem exists whatever the format (Raw (NEF) or .jpg)



Thanks for your help.
 
Joined
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Jim Ledbetter
Hi Pascal. I am sure you are going to get lots of helpful responses from the members. It might be that your backgrounds are heavily out of focus (Boken). All but one of your photos shows a PNG format except 1 JPEG. Plus the last of your photos I can't open. They are blocked.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
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Hello olshroom,



Thanks for your reply. In fact the posted photos are just .png screenshots of the original .jpg or .nef formats that are just too large for a forum. The background is clearly out of focus (as it should be) but, normally, the bokeh should not display such vertical or horizontal lines. As mentioned, they do not always appear but still can not find out what are their origin, the lens, the captor, or something else ?
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
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8
Hi Walter,

Yes but not something special (for color effects, etc.), only an anti-UV filter, being there against dust and scratches, the brand is a trusty one. Anyway, some tests could be made without it to compare. Good suggestion ;)
 
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Dan
It just looks like artifacts in the way that particular lens produces bokeh. You might try removing the filter to see if it is having an effect. I used to shoot a Sigma 100-300mm. It was plenty sharp but often did odd things with bokeh similar to this but much worse. This is one of the reasons lens reviews/tests include discussion of bokeh and why it is notable for certain lenses. The term "creamy" is often used to describe bokeh that is free of artifacts. The fact that the artifacts only appear in the OOF parts of the image strongly suggests it is a lens issue and not related to the camera/sensor.
 

Butlerkid

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It just looks like artifacts in the way that particular lens produces bokeh. You might try removing the filter to see if it is having an effect. I used to shoot a Sigma 100-300mm. It was plenty sharp but often did odd things with bokeh similar to this but much worse. This is one of the reasons lens reviews/tests include discussion of bokeh and why it is notable for certain lenses. The term "creamy" is often used to describe bokeh that is free of artifacts. The fact that the artifacts only appear in the OOF parts of the image strongly suggests it is a lens issue and not related to the camera/sensor.
I've noticed similar patterns from the Nikon 200-500. They are most noticeable with busy backgrounds.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
8
Thank you drr1531 and Butlerkid for your answers. I intend to make some tests in order to find out where the problem comes from, using also a second Nikon D5300 body, a Nikkor 70-300 mm, with and without the same filter, at different focal distances. But it is interesting to know that some of you have already encountered a similar problem. Will let you know the results of these tests.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
8
Hi,

Comparative tests were realized in the field in order to find out the origin of these lines sometimes appearing in the background. As already mentioned, they do appear in certain conditions, depending on several factors, like the distance between the main subject and the background, background luminosity (usually brighter than the subject), colour (very often with green) and structure (twigs, grasses, leaves).

Material used
bodies
1 Nikon D5300, very used
1 Nikon D5300, much less used

Lenses
Tamron 100-400mm, f.4.5-6.3
AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm, f. 4.5-5.6 G

Filters
1 K&F (Ken Faith) Concept HMC UV(K) 67mm
1 hama UV coated M 67 (XVI)

Subject
The chosen subject was selected because it gathers the conditions that often create problems, here a pole planted in a marsh, with a moss on top of it. The background, of few meters away, is made of the marsh shores where brooms growth, behind that vegetation is a meadow. At the time of the shooting, around 10h30 AM, the bright light was coming laterally, from the left.

Tests
The tests were realized on October 8 2021, outdoor, during a sunny day. The Camera were handheld, autofocus and vibration reduction on. ISO: 400. Shutter speed: 1/400.
The top of the pole was the focus point. Photographs were shoot at 100, 200, 300 and 400 mm with the Tamron and 100, 200 and 300 mm with the Nikkor.

All possible combinations were tested with both cameras, interchanging the lenses and the filters, including shooting without filters.

Conclusions


From the tests realized in the field, and under the above described conditions, it can be concluded several facts.

- the longer the focal is, the bigger the effect (lines) appears, seen at 100%, from almost non existent at 100mm but very visible at 400 mm.

- without any doubt possible the problem comes from the filters. With the only two available tested models, the undesired effect is more apparent with the K&F model than with the hama model.

- Shooting without a filter produces the best results.

Tamron at 400 with KF filter on the left, without on the right copy.jpg

NIkkor at 300 with hama filter (left), without filter (middle), with KF filter copy.jpg

With used body Tamron left with filter HMC, middle no filter, right hama filter copy.jpg


It is a good news to know the problem comes only from a simple filter issue.

Most of the time, the two used filters given excellent results where their presence is not noticed, but in some specific situations the lines problem comes up.

Normally, when lenses are manufactured their quality are tested by the manufacturer as well as independent laboratories based on their use without filters.

Now isn’t a bit risky to work without a filter, potentially exposing the frontal lens to dust, pollen, mud, rain, … ?

Some photographs do not use a protection filter for their lenses. For those who wish to use one, are there some brands or models where this lines problem would not exist ? Do we have to opt for more “neutral” filters ? Or built in some special material ?



Thank you for your help.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
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Northern VA suburb of Washington, DC
Congratulations on finding the culprits.

A filter won't protect the front of the lens from rain in the sense that if you release the shutter when water is on it the effect of the water will be in the image. The same is true for mud but only if you get so much on the lens that the mud prevents light from entering the lens. As for dust, pollen and the like, it will never affect your images unless you allow it to build up to a ridiculous amount (probably for years) without cleaning it. Consider that you can eliminate a chain link fence from the image if the camera is close enough to it, if the aperture is large enough and if the focal length is long enough. The same optics render dust, pollen and the like on the lens out of focus to the point of being eliminated from the image. Indeed, LensRentals did a test of an unbelievably dirty lens that rendered wonderful images.

A lens hood offers the best protection of the front of the lens in the event of dropping it or hitting a hard object with it, such as while hiking.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
8
Thanks to both of you. The use of a polarizing filter might be interesting to try, although I do mainly wildlife photography (so very little landscape). The use of a filter is probably still necessary in very special situations, like in an environment with sand or sea spray.

A comparative study here


Thanks once again for your input!
 
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