The new ACR update (4,5) allows profiles...

Discussion in 'Retouching and Post Processing' started by Cliffords, Aug 8, 2008.

  1. Cliffords

    Cliffords Guest

    I've been away for a few days, so I don't know if you caught this. A huge advance comes to Adobe Photoshop’s Adobe Camera Raw, starting with the 4.5 update. Read about it here: www.photos4clix.com
    Cliff
     
  2. Clif, I have been following this change to ACR and Lightroom but I am still unclear why this is an important advance.

    I have used Photoshop since Ver 5 and Lightroom since it first came out. Since I bought my D300 end of May, I have started testing CNX2 due to its close interface with the Picture Controls. My understanding is that this is Adobe’s answering salvo to its failure to read the proprietary Nikon Picture Controls.

    The one thing I still have not figured out is why Picture Controls are:
    1 Any different from the little icons on dials of consumer cameras.
    2 Necessary at all when you can tailor presets and actions to accomplish the same things (I think)

    In Lightroom, for example, I have downloaded all sorts of presets with a wide range of effects.

    What am I missing?
     
  3. What am I missing?

    ACR 4.5 supports (or emulates) the new Picture Controls.

    worth the price of entry alone IMHO.
     
  4. puddleduck, To simplify, what I am asking it is, WHY ARE PICTURE CONTOLS IMPORTANT IN THE FIRST PLACE

    Since I only shoot Raw 14bit 99% of the time and do not do volume PP, I treat each worthy shot (and they are far too few) as a starting point, analyze what is needed and go on from there.

    The Picture Controls, be it Nikon's or Adobe's may be useful to get closer to the end result faster, but, (It seems to me) hardly indispensible, I already have presets and actions to help speed up things that are frequently needed.

    The real value of Photoshop and the recent additional tools in. CNX2 is the ability to edit SELECTIVELY.

    Picture Controls are global changes that may or may not work on a particualr capture,

    Other than portability and the ability to share Picture Controls, what do the picture controls provide that’s not already available that makes Adobe’s emulation of them important.
     
  5. sjlarue

    sjlarue

    Nov 18, 2007
    OH-IO
    Are there any recipe profiles for the d300?
     
  6. Lets look at this another way - each camera has its own look, whether it be Fuji, Canon or Nikon. ACR - as it stands - uses a generic profile - a one size fits all deal.

    Using a profile that matches more closely what your camera outputs is a good thing. If you think you don't need "Nikon" colours, or "Fuji" colours or "Canon" colours that fine - use a generic profile and Pp to your hearts content.

    If you like Nikon colours, then you will get much closer to the output that Nikon expects if you use a matching profile.

    If you don't like Nikon colour choices, then I would question why you shoot it! If you Pp so extensively to remove a brands "signature" look then go right ahead and use ACR "as is", these new solutions are not designed for you.

    Many folks use NX now, as they find the output is more pleasing - and matches their brand expectations. The generic ACR profile doesn't (ie reds that are "off" for example). ACR Profiling is a good thing, I would look at this as an opportunity, not as a threat to your existing workflow.
     
  7. Please excuse the length of this post but I wanted my reasons for this post and other similar ones to be stated.

    First let me be clear. I am not attaching Nikon's Picture controls. I am trying to figure out how they work, what works best and why. I have read all that I could find from the usually reliable sources and my personal library and have come to the understanding that the principle value of the "System" is to allow consistency between different Nikon cameras. This is of particular value, for example, to a wedding photographer using several shooters and cameras. I am not certain about the full nature of the new Adobe emulations and I am still investigating.

    However, after reading, for example, Ken Rockwell's small article and other articles on Nikon's Picture Controls, I was still unclear why the Picture Controls were a good thing. Other then the portability aspect which is of no consequence to me, I did not understand what I could achieve better using PC’s or if the new ACR Emulations were better.

    You point out that that CNX2 converts the reds more correctly. This is a good thing. You point out that many folks like the CNX2 presentation of the various Picture Controls. This is also a good thing. I wrote my original post hoping to get this kind of information and I thank you.

    I have looked at the results of converting in CNX2 and ACR and have liked what I saw in CNX2 as a starting point. I have explored the advantages of using the camera’s sharpening menu which is picked up by CNX2 but not ACR and gotten Dr J's take on this.

    I was hoping to get an explanation of the Picture Controls that caused a "Now I get it" light bulb.

    The issue is not a trivial one with me. I can not evaluate the advantages of the ACR emulations unless I fully understand the Nikon Picture Controls. This may be one of those areas where there are fifty ways to achieve the same thing. My research has not yet answered the issues.

    If there are genuine benefits to using the Nikon Picture Controls and CNX2 it will mean many many many hours of learning the new editor. Additionally, I have a calibrated work flow usually ending in prints from my Epson 3800. This is controlled from CS3 and after much effort is working smoothly. I don’t want to add new variables unless there is a good reason.

    You were correct that I PP heavily as my photographic goal is not reality, but the best image as I see it.

    If the Bokeh is unpleasing, that is what Lens Blur is for. If the sky does not look correct modify it or replace it with one that does please.

    For me the capture is a canvas to be changed at will. But excellent canvases are initially required. Nikon cameras and lenses are certainly capable of producing such a canvas as are those from Cannon and many other companies. For many reasons I chose Nikon at this time. This included the fact that when I picked up the D300 at B&H it felt like an extension of my arm, fit my budget and for a DX format was the best available.

    I had hoped to take advantage of the huge pool of Nikon Cafe knowledge to get the in depth answers that I seek without having to sift thru the ton of misinformation that pervades the internet in general.

    Any more information on Picture Controls would be greatly appreciated.
     
  8. Cliffords

    Cliffords Guest

    Steve R, Have you downloaded the adobe profiles and tried the different looks?
    CliffordS
     
  9. I may be able to do so tomorrow. For the last two+ weeks, I have not been able to sit at my workstation due to a torn hamstring received when my super oiled rollerblade went off in a direction of its own choosing. This laptop which I am using in bed, is not up to the task. Thanks I will get back with my results ASAP.
     
  10. Cliffords

    Cliffords Guest

    Steve, sorry about the injury.
    Reread the article before you download. Once you see the subtle differences (some not so subtle.) you'll understand why I believe it's a huge improvement.
    www.photos4clix.com
    CliffordS
     
  11. Thanks, the hamstring injury (several tears) messed up my summer get back in shape goals which were going great. I was doing ten miles on blades every other day.

    Although it took me a while and two how to books to maximize the benefits of Lightroom, it is now my favorite organizer and Raw converter. I bring everything into Lightroom and finish it in Photoshop. I used the Beta since it was first available but it did not have the new emulations. I would much rather maintain an all Adobe workflow and based on your endorsement of the new ACR will be likely to do so.
     
  12. I downloaded the Adobe Profiles and edited several pictures ( vivid really pops) in ACR/Photoshop CS3. I like the results so far. Will edit more later and compare to edits in CNX2. I have reached my sitting limit for the moment.
     
  13. Let me say that I am tickled pink. I have tried to no avail to get ACR to look like what I got from capture and I couldnt do it. I would love to be able to do all of my pp in adobe. I have everything loaded and will try a few later for side by side comparisons.
     
  14. sjlarue

    sjlarue

    Nov 18, 2007
    OH-IO
  15. Well, I just finished trying the new ACR profiles. The picture looked better at the outset with the profile I chose. The ACR edits were OK but not a finished version. I opened the file in PS CS3 and gave it my all, which is not insubstantial. At the end it looked pretty good.

    Then I started again with the original file and opened it in CNX2 of which I have very very limited experience (except for the crossover knowledge from ACR and Photoshop).

    Without a doubt the final CNX2 version gotten by trial and error was vastly superior in every aspect. It looked like the picture that I had envisioned. It looked in focus. The colors had a subtle rightness about them. The Adobe initial and final versions compared to the CNX2 version were “muddy”.

    I tried posting the end results for your review but once uploaded to Flickr the files just did not look the same and lost the differences which standout on my calibrated monitors.

    I would be grateful if others with knowledge of both CNX2 and Adobe made the comparison also and reported their results.

    At this point I intend to get up to speed with CNX2. After I explore its capabilities, I can revise my workflow accordingly.
     
  16. zeus1

    zeus1

    126
    Dec 14, 2006
    Belgium
    Having a problem installing the profiles....

    iMac running OSX10.5.4. Profiles are installed automatically in the correct location.
    However, when I open a picture in ACR 4.5 and click on the camera icon, I only see "embedded" profiles, and no possibility to chage this to all the other - new- profiles.
    Any suggestions? :confused: :confused:
     
  17. lchrismunos

    lchrismunos

    511
    Jun 28, 2006
    Arkansas
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2017
  18. Taurus,

    I had the same outcome as you. I worked on a couple of pictures with the ACR4.5 and the new profiles and they looked great, then I processed the same pictures in NX2 with minimal enhancements and the NX2 versions viewed with Photo Mechanic looked much better. I tried some more NEFS and on some pictures ACR 4.5 was almost as good as NX2, but some were not even close.

    Tom
     
  19. Thanks, Chris and Tom for your posts. Now that the tornado warning has been cancelled in my section of Southern New Jersey and power has been restored, I am going to try some more permutations of the conversion and editing.