The truth about Macs and viruses ?

[Jeff Mims]

I've got a Dell PC, which has actually been very reliable for about 3 years. However, in just over two years, I've gotten a a virus infection, and the other day..someone (apparrently) hacked into my supposedly secure (encrypted) wireless network.
It was either a hack..or something to do with a virus protection update. I use cable based ISP, and they provide their own virus protection, which has worked fine for about 18 months. I usually get updates every few days, that download automatically...and then I click to install. Never a problem till last night.
I got home from shooting a football game. I need to get photos submitted to the local paper that night. I click on apply updates..my pc goes nuts. I click on a desktop icon..it disappears! Then everything is gone..except the green grass/blue sky background on the Windows XP screen. No start menu..nothing.
I had to unplug the computer to shut it down. Then I restarted, got in safe mode, and did a system restore. I put a new virus protection program on..and everything seems to be fine..for now.
I also have a Mac G5, which uses the same ISP, but has it's own separate dedicated internet connection. No networking. The ISP's virus software doesn't work with Macs, so I never installed it. In over a year, I've not had a virus issue, or anything else with the Mac.
So everything is running now, but I'm wondering ..is it time to look at a new iMac for the family computer. That's what the pc is..the family computer, but I also use it for email, online bill payments..etc.
Two hacks and/or virus's in two years is not comforting.
Are the Macs really that safer, just use better protection, or less of a target for hackers?

 

[Kiwi Geoff]

Two hacks and/or virus's in two years is not comforting.
Are the Macs really that safer, just use better protection, or less of a target for hackers?

Don't know the answer to your questions, however my experience with Macs is with over 10 years of use and on the net, no hacks, no viruses, 1 HD melt down many years ago (raided drive though so no loss).:smile::smile:

 

[jhorton]

Been using Macs on the internet since ... the last Century.

Currently have non-intel: G5, G4, and two iBooks.

Never had a virus, no problems what so ever.

I surf the internet ..... and download ..... and open lots of emails ..... everyday ..... no problems.

At work we use Windows (large public high school), lots of problems ... except in the classrooms that use macs.

HTH

YMMV,

--jack

 

[bozola]

I have had 9 macs on the internet for what seems like an eternity.

Not one virus and not a dime spent on antivirus software.

Plus they look cool!

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

 

[Julien]

Are the Macs really that safer, just use better protection, or less of a target for hackers?

All of the above to some extent. As Apple's market shares are far from the other pc manufacturers it's normal that they're less of a target. That's one of the reasons I don't want too many people using Macs :biggrin:

Macs are also UNIX based which seems to help as well ( I guess running Linux could help on the pc side ). Some tech gurus could explain way more on that than I could.

 

[Jeff Mims]

All of the above to some extent. As Apple's market shares are far from the other pc manufacturers it's normal that they're less of a target. That's one of the reasons I don't want too many people using Macs :biggrin:

Macs are also UNIX based which seems to help as well ( I guess running Linux could help on the pc side ). Some tech gurus could explain way more on that than I could.

Thanks. You should be encouraging people...not to get a Mac then...:smile:

I know I've had no virus/spyware problems with the Mac I have (PM G5, non intel) even though I surf the net. And I do use the same ISP, just not the same virus protection package.
So what I'm thinking is to go Mac all the way, just get rid of all my PC stuff.
My current PC is 3 years old. Which is ancient for PCs. That's another thing..I hear you can run Macs for years..and years. PCs...better get one that's upgradeable, to keep it running for 3-5 years.

 

[Clix Pix]

I think you know what my recommendation will be, Jeff! :smile:

Ditch the PC, go for another Mac in your household! The new iMacs are wonderful, or you could get yourself a Mac Pro and use the G5 PM for the family computer.....

 

[Lowolf]

what you got was an explorer crash which gives you only the start button

 

[Jeff Mims]

what you got was an explorer crash which gives you only the start button

Why would explorer crash when I'm not using it? I use Firefox? There was no start menu after the log in screen.
I'm really trying to figure out what happened to see if I can prevent it again, or should just move everything to Apple.

 

[Jeff Mims]

I think you know what my recommendation will be, Jeff! :smile:

Ditch the PC, go for another Mac in your household! The new iMacs are wonderful, or you could get yourself a Mac Pro and use the G5 PM for the family computer.....

Connie...recommending Apple??? Who would have thought? :smile:

I can't make a good argument to stay with a pc, other than not spending $$$ on another computer right now. Though I do think at some point my family will be using an iMac. :smile:

 

[ckdamascus]

Two hacks and/or virus's in two years is not comforting.
Are the Macs really that safer, just use better protection, or less of a target for hackers?

A bit of all of it, but mostly because they are less of a economical target for hackers.

So speaking from a pure technical standpoint, no, Macs are not really that much better. However, from a practical stand point, Macs will appear to be more secure because they are less of a target and their default out of the box setup is more secure than most windows machines. Use all of the basic security tenants on any of your OSes. (Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, Mac OS-X).

- disable unused services
- use a firewall to block any services that you have to leave open or bind them locally
- never run as an administrator for normal operation
- if your browser lets you, harden/reduce the ability to use things like Active X or javascript or java applets without explicit notification unless it is a trusted website
- never open or install weird, strange or unknown packages/exes

First off, you have to find out HOW you got hit by a virus to begin with. How can you defend yourself when you have no idea how you got hit to begin with?

Bad attachment? Bad website that launched an ActiveX that planted a virus? Remote automated infection?

If you are not sure, you have to be more cognizant of your user behavior. The problem is, if it is a shared computer that makes it more difficult. You might want to check that history of odd websites it has been to.

A careful user can avoid the use of antivirus software. Most antivirus software works on the inherently flawed concept of signatures. What would be better is if they watched for inherently flawed behavior. But oh, that would not make money since it would only sell once.

Not all antivirus software catches everything.

 

[ronnies]

Why would explorer crash when I'm not using it? I use Firefox? There was no start menu after the log in screen.
I'm really trying to figure out what happened to see if I can prevent it again, or should just move everything to Apple.

"Explorer" not "Internet Explorer". Explorer is the Micro$haft file manager which also seems to be the "main" application in Windows.

Ronnie

 

[jcovert]

I got a Mac virus once...back in like '91...from a floppy-disk I took to Kinko's and it got infected. I think it was called MDF something or another. Good times.

 

[RaceTripper]

Another way to to avoid problems is to not use Internet Explorer on Windows. It has too many security problems that MS never quite seems to catch up to and solve in a way that is practical to most users.

I teach computer programming classes in a lab where I have no control of system administration. The first thing I tell students is to use Firefox and not use IE.

 

[C2020]

I remember reading an article in one of the computer periodicals discussing the difference between Mac's and PC's security issues. The mac operating system is based on UNIX, a very efficient system with out a lot of places for viruses and malware to hide. Windows on the other hand has a lot of inefficiencies where malicious code can hide.

The mac world is smaller than the windows world so less attention is paid to the Mac OS. Mac users are used to a "safe" system and much less willing to accept malware and viruses as a "normal" part of online life. I personally get very frustrated when using a windows machine and the onslaught of unwanted junk both malware and anti-virus intrusions that my windows friends seem to accept as a matter of course.

Macs are based on a very secure system, though not perfect, they are much less prone to the infections common on the PC side. I like the fact Apple sends out security updates on a regular basis and the auto update function on my macs allows me to painlessly stay "safe."

 

[Jeff Mims]

"Explorer" not "Internet Explorer". Explorer is the Micro$haft file manager which also seems to be the "main" application in Windows.

Ronnie

:redface:

So now the cat's out of the bag. I'm not a computer genius.:smile:

Thanks for clarifying that. That would seem more likely to be what happened, than an actual virus. Given that the pc is running fine now, after a system restore.

 

[ckdamascus]

I remember reading an article in one of the computer periodicals discussing the difference between Mac's and PC's security issues. The mac operating system is based on UNIX, a very efficient system with out a lot of places for viruses and malware to hide. Windows on the other hand has a lot of inefficiencies where malicious code can hide.

This is inaccurate. Every OS has a lot of nasty places to hide. Oddly enough, the first handful of machines I was asked to diagnose for a break in were... linux machines. I manage linux, freebsd, and windows machines for quite a few clients.

The first few kernel mod root kits for linux were far more dangerous than any 'spyware' you might find on windows. Insidious programs that would make your commands display the wrong information simply to hide the location of the trojan. Thankfully, I can usually ferret them out anyway but it can be just as difficult as ferretting out the 'en-vogue' windows spyware.

Poor security practices on ANY OS will always result in a highly susceptible system. This goes for ANY OS.

If you want to know the real security difference, it is because on Windows they default to an 'administrator' or a user with administrative rights. On unix machines, you are ENCOURAGED to run as a normal user, then explicitly run certain commands as a "root" (the administrator equivalent in unix). OS-X follows a similar model to the unix way.

You can run a Windows machine in the same dual-user fashion, in fact, I do this all the time.

The mac world is smaller than the windows world so less attention is paid to the Mac OS. Mac users are used to a "safe" system and much less willing to accept malware and viruses as a "normal" part of online life. I personally get very frustrated when using a windows machine and the onslaught of unwanted junk both malware and anti-virus intrusions that my windows friends seem to accept as a matter of course.

Hmmm? I never get any malware or viruses. I do not use antivirus software or anti malware software either. I also use windows most of the time for day to day activities. I do not accept them as a "normal" part of online life either.

Macs are based on a very secure system, though not perfect, they are much less prone to the infections common on the PC side. I like the fact Apple sends out security updates on a regular basis and the auto update function on my macs allows me to painlessly stay "safe."

Heh. Everyone should really follow "generic" good security practices as I listed up earlier. After using most of the other OSes (I do not use OS-X), they all have security weakenesses. OS-X is no exception based on the advisories I have read.

 

[jcovert]

If you want to know the real security difference, it is because on Windows they default to an 'administrator' or a user with administrative rights. On unix machines, you are ENCOURAGED to run as a normal user, then explicitly run certain commands as a "root" (the administrator equivalent in unix). OS-X follows a similar model to the unix way.

Great post CK, I think you're right on the money. If Mac users were logging in as root everyday, it would be a matter of time before we broke it too. Still, I've always been surprised MS didn't offer a "mac mode' of some sort in it's OS.

 

[ckdamascus]

Great post CK, I think you're right on the money. If Mac users were logging in as root everyday, it would be a matter of time before we broke it too. Still, I've always been surprised MS didn't offer a "mac mode' of some sort in it's OS.

It is funny you should say that. I do not run Vista, but I heard Vista runs in a similar manner that I run all of my Windows 2000 machines. It has a concept of a "normal" user and "administrative/root" user as well.

I also use a layered zone under Internet Explorer which makes it more secure than FireFox (the irony! all built into the system too). I still use both though, but I just find it curiously funny.

Guess what though? Everyone is giving a hissy fit about how "hard" it is to use and "inconvenient". That is the trade off. Microsoft finally gives them what they wanted, but they cannot handle the heat. So what do they do? Find all the ways possible to disable it, thus, repeating the cycle.

Funny how it is not so far off from bad photographers with professional cameras.

Admittedly, a lot of the software technologies that were designed to make the user experience "oh so wonderful" ended up back firing. Alas, Microsoft back then had to fight the war against Netscape's "Javascript" (incidentally nothing to do with java haha) and Sun's Java (although applets never really took off except in the financial sector) with their ill-fated ActiveX. Oh... the old days of the "client-side scripting" wars.

Now most of that has backfired now. Everyone was concentrated on more features via websites. Tons of security experts and pundits warned of the horrors. A lot of people said "oh it is secure, there are no flaws, no security holes, I have had these client-side technologies for YEARS and never had an issue." "Not enough people use this Internet thing with ActiveX stuffs" (Sound familiar? Poor security concepts will always bite you in the long run even if you see no problems in the short run)

Few people ended up using them when they first came out. Now everyone is using them (like custom photo app uploaders), but a huge amount of them is using it for financial gain... aka malware/spyware.

Suddenly it became very economical for a hacker to write ActiveX spyware/malware. It is no surprise once the internet became even ubiquitous.

 

[etaoin]

Macs and viruses article

Here is an excellent forum post from MacFixit regarding Macs and viruses:

http://www.macfixitforums.com/showf...13778&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1