Use of Image and Copyright Question

Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
15,253
Location
Marysville, WA
I had an unfortunate experience this past weekend at a Dog Show, you can look at the Sports Forum for the whole story. But my "use" question revolves around one specific issue. The Seattle Kennel Club states that they own the copyright to all images taken at the show unless express written permission has been given for commercial use, selling to the owners. I had gotten the verbal OK, I thought, from the right person but that wasn't good enough. But then I was also told that I could not give one of the competitors an image for their Breed magazine, which would have been good publicity for me as well. I wasn't thinking quikly enough when this came up Sunday afternoon or I would have commented that they cannot constrain editorial use of the images, only commercial.

So I guess my question is actually 2, the first is am I correct regarding copyright and editorial use? And secondly could I then give images out for use in magazines as long as I am not being paid for the use of that image?

I didn't want to make too big a stink on Sunday at the show as I may need to work with some of these folks in the future. Lesson learned, I won't be in this situation again.

Thanks,
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
506
Location
Durban, South Africa
Wow Bill

Your laws must be very different stateside. Here, copyright is always vested with the author of the work unless you have been commissioned to do a job and have agreed to give up on the copyright as part of the fee you have been paid for the job.
Even when I sell images for either once off use or for multiple use, the copyright is retained by myself. My understanding is that you shot this material for yourself, you were not paid to do a job...so how you can then give up your intellectual right to your own property is beyond my ken.

Better check the fine print to make sure the club doesn't own your dogs as well, now that they have been in the show.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
4,084
Re: Wow Bill

bendheim said:
Your laws must be very different stateside. Here, copyright is always vested with the author of the work unless you have been commissioned to do a job and have agreed to give up on the copyright as part of the fee you have been paid for the job.
Even when I sell images for either once off use or for multiple use, the copyright is retained by myself. My understanding is that you shot this material for yourself, you were not paid to do a job...so how you can then give up your intellectual right to your own property is beyond my ken.

Better check the fine print to make sure the club doesn't own your dogs as well, now that they have been in the show.
Peter :

The term here is called "work for hire".

Any product copyright, patent, or intellectual property aspect is then ceded to the person paying for the time of the creator. In some cases, this is contractually enforced with a requirement to assign the rights, where in others, the agreement is printed on the back of the pay cheque, so that endorsing the cheque constitutes a contract.

The latter point is particularly sleazy, but I've personally seen such cheques.


John P.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
15,253
Location
Marysville, WA
Thanks, folks. The tricky bit here is that this is written in the Show Premium:
"ALL RIGHTS TO TELEVISE, VIDEOTAPE, ADVERTISE, PHOTOGRAPH, PROMOTE or otherwise exploit this event are vested in the Club, or in person to whom assignments of such rights have been made in writing by the Club."

So while they don't state that they own the copyright the contention is that "exploit" includes "making money by selling the images". Maybe I should invest a few bucks and get a lawyers opinion. Man, you know you are getting old when you remember a time when people were simply reasonable and decent.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
301
Location
Singapore
Bill

Retief said:
Thanks, folks. The tricky bit here is that this is written in the Show Premium:
"ALL RIGHTS TO TELEVISE, VIDEOTAPE, ADVERTISE, PHOTOGRAPH, PROMOTE or otherwise exploit this event are vested in the Club, or in person to whom assignments of such rights have been made in writing by the Club."

I would just forget the whole episode and not bother to spend more time trying to figure this out. At most you would sell a few prints, since you are already willing to give away your work in exchange for some credit. Even if you can get some credit by giving away your work, I'm sure other dog shows in your area will have the same kind of conditions so you will forever be doing this for free. You'll starve while those organizers laugh behind your smarting back. Find some other event where you will be appreciated and more lucrative.

Henry Goh
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
15,253
Location
Marysville, WA
Re: Bill

Henry Goh said:
I would just forget the whole episode and not bother to spend more time trying to figure this out. At most you would sell a few prints, since you are already willing to give away your work in exchange for some credit. Even if you can get some credit by giving away your work, I'm sure other dog shows in your area will have the same kind of conditions so you will forever be doing this for free. You'll starve while those organizers laugh behind your smarting back. Find some other event where you will be appreciated and more lucrative.

Henry Goh
Actually, Henry, that is not the case at all. This is the only club with such a restriction. In general, without even trying, and only shooting a class or two I can generally pick up 200-300 dollars at a meet. As to the "giving away", this is a one-time deal for this meet :lol: , these folks generally are quite happy to pay me.
 

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