Very cool lenses, Hartblei Tilt and shift

Sunesha · May 20, 2007

The Hartblei lenses really got me going this morning. I really interested in them. Very cool design on them. I have secret dream to run around with large format old school camera. But this seems to be good.

They have two product lines. One "russian" optics version and one fitted with zeiss optics. But the zeiss optic versions really are expensive.

Anyone got any experience of this lenses?

I did some research on the lenses, seems like the manufacturer got over old zeiss machine for making lenses. Then they did some prototypes fitted with zeiss optics and somehow got Carl Zeiss blessing to use them. The photos on the site demonstrating the zeiss version is fantastic. The cheaper line thou they dont showcase so much.

Clicky: http://www.hartblei.de/en/index.htm

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blw777 · May 20, 2007

They are apparently asking 9000 Euros for the set of three (40/f4, 80/f2.8, 120/f4) tilt/shift lenses. Looking strictly at the photos, it would also seem that these lenses lack the AIS coupling to communicate aperture information (and I also assume that they're non-CPU). Thus they'd be stop-down metering only. That'd be inconvenient but hardly more so since these lenses would have to be operated at a snail's pace due to the tilting and shifting anyway.

If I understood it correctly, the lenses will eventually be available at around 4300 Euros each. Wow!

Latens · May 20, 2007

Daniel,

It seems an interesting option but if you want tilt and shift (and more) let me suggest a completely diferent aproach:

Cambo X2-PRO system

http://www.cambo.com/index.htm

Horseman VCC

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/vcc.html

The Cambo system can use a 28 lens, an advantage for architectural pictures.

Cheers,

Paulo

DABO · May 20, 2007

Thanks for those links, Paulo. Those are fantastic. I've been looking for those kinds of products for a long time.

But, the Cambo looks WAY too complex for an amateur like me, and at $4000, forget about it. The Horseman looks just like I imagined this kind of product to look like. I want one, but at $2000, it's another forget about it (for me). I'll wait until someone does a knock-off of the Horseman, or I'll make one myself out of spare parts.

DAB

Sunesha · May 21, 2007

Paulo,

Thats was some really interesting choices. Thou costing alot. Maybe you can ebay it for reasonable money.

Just to able to tilt a lens give some new interesting way to be creative on. Heh, think I will go down and buy some lottery tickets again ;-)

Cheers,
daniel

Beezle · May 21, 2007

That Horseman is definitely something I am considering getting for my flower work.

Latens · May 21, 2007

Daniel,

You are right, but I still have some nostalgia of using something like this:

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Anyway, the Hartblei isn't cheap from 2700 € to 4890 €, while the basic Horseman setup starts at € 1 198,00 without lens (that maybe can be found secondhand). The Cambo is in the same level of price, around 1200 euros (in Calumet site).

Here's the link to the Horseman french reseller price list:

http://www.legrandformat.com/Neuf/HORSEMAN.htm

If some job shows up maybe I'll make that investment. Much cheaper than buying a digital back for large format, wich prices start at more than 10 times.

Cheers,

Paulo

Sunesha · May 21, 2007

I will think about, if I pay in dollars it would be same price as 17-55 in sweden. Dollar is low.

1200 euro is like a pro lens.. Like the 12-24 here in sweden.

Paulo, you are evil man. ;-) I feel like it start to become option. I just counted with old currency rates when swedish krona was low.

As you can count it as "lens" somehow. Its kinda interestning.

Cheers,
Daniel

DABO · May 21, 2007

Beezle said:
That Horseman is definitely something I am considering getting for my flower work.

C'mon, Ed. When I saw that Cambo, I thought of you. All those high tech clamps and such. Go for it!

DAB

Sunesha · May 21, 2007

Found a review on Horseman:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Horseman_LD.shtml

Thou busy at the moment, so didnt have time to read it. But hopefully it will be pleasant product. The user tested the product with D2X.

Cheers,
Daniel

Latens · May 23, 2007

I Daniel,

Thank you for the link, I think this is an alternative to medium format high end digital photography, it is more resourceful than tilt and shift lens but, as you very well put it, expensive unless you use it in your daily work. Maybe a combination of software (image correction+stitching) will be a solution (cheaper) for now. Seen great examples in several other threads. If you have some imagens with DXO correction will you let me see them?

Cheers,

Paulo

Sunesha · May 23, 2007

Paulo,

I think your right. I will probably spend some money on some solution as I like the idea of Scheemfer (cant remember the name) dof effect. That you can get extended dof.

Just got 5 days trial left on DXO optics, thou cost 150 euro or something for the version that supports D80..

Excuse my photos arnt postprocessed just raw and my import color preset from Adobe lightroom. But just working on this photo to correct some perspective distortion. The barrel correction is "automagic" from their software.

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Distortion version. Also had to tilt the camera a bit for nicer horizon compostion.

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1 Minute work. Thou will probably do the rest in Lightroom.

The only bad thing I dont like with DXO they have alot off auto settings for color. Which I turn off as I dont really like them. I prefer do my color and that stuff in Adobe Lightroom. Also it fixs vignette "automagically" which I get at the wider end at my lens in small amount.

Cheers,
Daniel

Sunesha · May 23, 2007

Oh I see now that I tilted the photo nudge to much.

Cheers,
Daniel

Latens · May 23, 2007

Seems it works alright. It gives a strange kind of LL, software lust.

Cheers,

Paulo

Sunesha · May 24, 2007

I also had trial of LensfixCL (mac software) from http://www.kekus.com/ .

I worked with it alot this morning. It does the same thing as DXO optics. I even like the interface alot more. It is much more streamlined, also have Photoshop plugin. Also dont all the color and other RAW conversion which is plus.

I found the DXO optics on the minus side had cluttery interface. Also I would just use the distorotion functions.

It work from same lens distorotion database as the Windows PTlens:
http://www.epaperpress.com/ptlens/index.html

Best of all it cost 25 dollar which is bargain. So I bought right away. The author of the software is very service minded and reply to emails very fast.

Thou software doesnt give you the same abilities in focus and DOF, it works good on perspective. I will probably invest in some system in future for this as architecture, landscape and urban are my favorite photo subjects.

But for now I am able to fix perspective and my lens distortion for 25 dollar ;-).

Cheers,
Daniel

barriosa · May 24, 2007

What about a lensbaby lens? Ever consider one of these?

Harry S. · May 24, 2007

As far as I know the Hartblei/Zeiss lenses are not yet available, or are they?

There is also a review of the Hartblei Super-rotator.

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/hartblei45.shtml

blw777 said:
Thus they'd be stop-down metering only.

Practically, all lenses with tilt function are stop-down metering only. When I work with my 85/2.8 PC (although it has a CPU) I focuss with open aperture but meter with aperture closed. Even then it is often necessary to do some slight correction of exposure values.

Novoflex, too, offers a tilt/shift bellows (BALPRO T/S) - for much less money.

A pity that the good old Nikon PB-4 is offered so rarely.

Cheers

Latens · May 24, 2007

Harry,
I supose PB-4 doesn't have tilt and shift, Novoflex BALPRO T/S does but limited and only adequate to tele/macro work reducing it's usefulness for architectural work.

Fred,
Lensbaby looks like it is a piece of glass (or plastic) with great creative potencial but i'm not sure it's useful for straight documental work.

Best regards both,

Paulo

http://www.pbase.com/paulorbaptista/galleries

Harry S. · May 24, 2007

Latens said:
Harry,
I supose PB-4 doesn't have tilt and shift,

The PB-4 does have T/S. It's the PB-6 that cannot do it.

Latens said:
Novoflex BALPRO T/S does but limited and only adequate to tele/macro work reducing it's usefulness for architectural work.

That's right. A pity that those WA-bellows (like Cambo Ultima) are so pricey. However, all these solutions require at least a 80mm lens on a SLR if you want to focus to infinity - which is a must for architectural work I guess.

Cheers

barriosa · May 24, 2007

Latens said:
Fred,
Lensbaby looks like it is a piece of glass (or plastic) with great creative potencial but i'm not sure it's useful for straight documental work.

Best regards both,

Paulo

The lensbaby 3 should be since you can lock that version. They also have macro kits available. It runs about the same price for a 50mm Lensbabie and a 65mm Hartblei.