Wedding Fright

Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
5,262
Location
NJ
Ok now, you can't have your cake and eat it.

Either we stop with those snarky comments on "you must have a great camera" or we agree that equipment doesn't matter. And remember the difference between a successful pro and an unsuccessful one has more to do with business skills than photography skills.

So what if the photographer was using a 18-200 zoom? As long as we haven't seen her images it's hard to judge on that fact alone. Equipment doesn't matter, right? And as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy.
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
314
Location
NoVa/NEPA
Ok now, you can't have your cake and eat it.

Either we stop with those snarky comments on "you must have a great camera" or we agree that equipment doesn't matter. And remember the difference between a successful pro and an unsuccessful one has more to do with business skills than photography skills.

So what if the photographer was using a 18-200 zoom? As long as we haven't seen her images it's hard to judge on that fact alone. Equipment doesn't matter, right? And as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy.
It's only snarky if it's not truly an issue, but from the original description:

The reception was inside of a dimly-lit barn and even my 35 f/1.8 was having trouble capturing the images. She only carried one lens with her (18-200mm f/3.5-5.6)!
If you can't get it at f/1.8, then all the "skills" in the world aren't going to give you 4x times light- let alone well-lit shots if it's typical of places that dark.

Equipment matters in lots of professional capacities, and bringing light when there isn't enough is pretty-much a staple for weddings if you don't have a shiny new gazillion-ISO body (and that still doesn't mean you'll have good lighting.)

(FWIW, the comment was about not having flashes in combination with a relatively slow lens- not the lens itself.)

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
10,853
Location
Gulu, Uganda
Let's keep the thread from degenerating please or it will be closed. Thank you.
The Forum aims for a friendly atmosphere.

Do you lot have too much time on your hands with holidays or is it the summer sun taking it's toll??:biggrin::biggrin::eek:
 
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
273
Location
Reno, NV
It seems that lately they are more & more Sub-Par wedding photographers posing as pros, it makes me sick to see the results from some of these posers. After all it is not an event that can be redone, & most people I have talked to have felt robbed.
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
314
Location
NoVa/NEPA
It seems that lately they are more & more Sub-Par wedding photographers posing as pros, it makes me sick to see the results from some of these posers. After all it is not an event that can be redone, & most people I have talked to have felt robbed.
Once DSLRs went to 6MP, we ended up with affordable equipment that was capable of very good images. Add in relatively powerful and cheap flash units, and you've got the makings of wedding-on-a-budget photography. Couple that with several years of "PJ style" shoots where posing and lighting weren't that important and you've got the ingredients for what we have today.

Money's tight- and there are lots of "good enough" photographers out there with relatively cheap equipment and a lot of time- it's inevitable- just like any advance people are going to have to learn to adapt to it. I just wonder why nobody has their friend "just cook up some food, we like your meatloaf, so can you please prepare prime rib for 50?"

I'm so glad I'm not a wedding photographer.

Paul
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
2,447
Location
South Orange, NJ
Its funny that people buy an SLR and automatically have their own website, with some "***** Photography" or "Photos by *****" and assume they are qualified to shoot weddings. There is a bold line between having the passion and excitement to shoot photography and being a professional.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
35,243
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Chris
What a wonderful (or in the current vernacular) teachable moment. This is an up coming photographer who has landed a wedding - BRAVO!! Which of us was not excited (or would not be excited) at that prospect. She's realized that she needs a flash before her next shoot!

I hope you recommended that she visit the Nikon Cafe to learn about this 'digital photography stuff'!
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
1,830
Location
Newtown, PA
Ok now, you can't have your cake and eat it.

Either we stop with those snarky comments on "you must have a great camera" or we agree that equipment doesn't matter. And remember the difference between a successful pro and an unsuccessful one has more to do with business skills than photography skills.

So what if the photographer was using a 18-200 zoom? As long as we haven't seen her images it's hard to judge on that fact alone. Equipment doesn't matter, right? And as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy.
There is "equipment doesn't matter" then there is "impossible".

I don't care how good someone is; shooting indoors in dim light with a f/5.6 lens isn't gonna fly without a flash. Where "equipment doesn't matter" comes in would be the type of flash. No SB-900 needed, a 285 would work just as well.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
2,434
Location
Bournemouth, UK
I did offer...then realized she was shooting Canon. Would have been happy to let her borrow my speedlight and/or the f/1.8 lens - for the sake of the couple's happiness with the shots.

I've seen her work on her website. no Woulard here.
not sure there is an issue,. it's great fun (?) to complain about another photographer but really is quite sad

client (couple getting wed) presume saw photographers work / examples there of,. it was upto them to do due diligence and then it sounds like they 'paid what they could afford' - which may or may not be a lot of $$ for the product as offered

I read more and more here about ppl saying in a derogatory way about 'craigslist' or '$500' or 'backyard wedding' or 'digital rebel' wedding photographers like they have done/doing something wrong,. it's supply and demand

shock,. ppl will ask a friend and pay nothing for their wedding photography,. it's ok,. they are allowed to decide for themselves?! :smile:
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
2,434
Location
Bournemouth, UK
Ok now, you can't have your cake and eat it.

Either we stop with those snarky comments on "you must have a great camera" or we agree that equipment doesn't matter. And remember the difference between a successful pro and an unsuccessful one has more to do with business skills than photography skills.

So what if the photographer was using a 18-200 zoom? As long as we haven't seen her images it's hard to judge on that fact alone. Equipment doesn't matter, right? And as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy.
yep,. I really love the threads here which show it is not a matter of expensive stuff but amazing skill that makes a difference,. one recent example P&S Portraits

key point being "as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy"
 
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Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
882
Location
St. Louis
Real Name
Mike
So I attended a wedding yesterday as an assistant to my wife who is a wedding planner. We were responsible for only coordinating the day of the wedding and had no input into the vendors chosen for the event.

I usually shoot some pictures of the venue, the couple and mainly the details (programs, centerpieces, etc.) for my wife's website. When I pulled out my equipment (which is, by no means, impressive) the professional photographer for the event commented "oh geez...I really have to get a flash someday". My heart stopped. The reception was inside of a dimly-lit barn and even my 35 f/1.8 was having trouble capturing the images. She only carried one lens with her (18-200mm f/3.5-5.6)! How do you market yourself as a professional wedding photographer and not have even the most basic of equipment - a flash!?!
I was just at a wedding this weekend for a family member as a guest. The photographer charged $150 and she used the on board flash for the wedding for both the ceremony and reception. She was using a Canon XSi I believe or XTi. Both places were dimly lit but I could have gotten away with a 50 1.8 for the reception for a period of time. Flash was definitely needed though.

I looked like the wedding photographer and some family members were pointing this out to me. I had a D300, 17-55, and an SB-800. I told the hired photographer to just let me know if I was in the way. I made it a point to be where they weren't and not to interfere with my flash and their shots.

Anyway, after the church ceremony I decided to shoot the breeze so I asked, "hey, did you get some good shots of the ceremony?". The response was, "I hope so....". That is the quote of the year for me.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
540
Location
Pacific NW
What a wonderful (or in the current vernacular) teachable moment. This is an up coming photographer who has landed a wedding - BRAVO!! Which of us was not excited (or would not be excited) at that prospect. She's realized that she needs a flash before her next shoot!

I hope you recommended that she visit the Nikon Cafe to learn about this 'digital photography stuff'!
I don't know, Chris. "oh geez...I really have to get a flash someday" doesn't sound like she realized she needed a flash or was planning on getting one before her next shoot.

It might have been a teachable moment, but on the other hand is right before the wedding the best time for the 'hired pro' to try learning something new and experimenting?
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
2,656
Location
Norway
your not going to get the rolling stones to play for £200 are you?
No, but you *do* expect the Bulgarian duo to bring their own Casiotone, though, don't you?

(edit: I'm not making fun of Bulgarian musicians - I know Bulgaria has very high standards of music education and extremely high general knowledge of music and almost everybody plays an instrument at impressive level, but they ARE cheap to hire...)
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
314
Location
NoVa/NEPA
key point being "as long as she gets the shots that matter in a way that satisfies her customers, they will happy"
The point keeps being made that some of you don't seem to be getting- a wedding doesn't have do-overs, so if the couple don't know what to look for in a photographer, and the "professional" can't take good pictures then the couple won't have good wedding photos.

The key point being "gets the shots that matter" becomes quite difficult with a slow lens in a poorly-lit venue without adding light.

it was upto them to do due diligence
That's like saying a new camera buyer should "get what they deserve" with the bait-and-switch outfits because "it's up to them to do due diligence"- and if we're to follow the "don't talk about it" rule- without all the reseller ratings, warning posts, blogs and all that. After all, it's just another retailer trying to make a living!

Paul
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
950
Location
Middletown, NY
When it comes to needing to add light, nearly all consumer DSLR's come with a flash built in, no? She is using what is considered a consumer lens, so I doubt she would put that onto a pro body. Perhaps she is referring to the need to buy an off camera flash for extra flash capability. Sure, shadows may be harsh, but there's your extra light right there.

Remember as long as you get a nonblurry image, if you have good photoshop skills, you can fix nearly anything if you feel like spending hours on each photo.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
2,434
Location
Bournemouth, UK
The point keeps being made that some of you don't seem to be getting- a wedding doesn't have do-overs, so if the couple don't know what to look for in a photographer, and the "professional" can't take good pictures then the couple won't have good wedding photos.

The key point being "gets the shots that matter" becomes quite difficult with a slow lens in a poorly-lit venue without adding light.



That's like saying a new camera buyer should "get what they deserve" with the bait-and-switch outfits because "it's up to them to do due diligence"- and if we're to follow the "don't talk about it" rule- without all the reseller ratings, warning posts, blogs and all that. After all, it's just another retailer trying to make a living!

Paul
if you are hiring someone to take pictures, you look at their website and decide you like what they provide and the price point what more is there,. the fact that others might look at the website and say the images aren't great (or whatever was said earlier) is proof that clients are looking for different things

all this stuff about photographer had a point+shoot or whatever is meaningless if the couple are happy with the results, that part we don't know and it's not possible to know that based on equipment the photgrapher had

client could pay a lot of money, someone turn up with $$ expensive camera equipment and the client to be unhappy with the results,. which points back to nothing to do with equipment
 
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