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what's your solution?

Discussion in 'General Technical Discussion' started by photoshooter, May 19, 2007.

  1. photoshooter

    photoshooter Guest

    Very bright sunlight, Am, Early PM shoot. Outdoors, lots of green.

    People, close 35mm maybe (5 0r 6 ft)

    17-55dx, d2x, iso 100, wb-cloudy +2, Aperture p. f4, shutter about 1200-2000.

    Sun behind shooter or slightly left or right.

    subject posing, sb-800 ttl-bl,

    We had the most horrible light shifting, all over the place

    Never encountered so many problems, with fill flash.
    Shadows across eyes, horrible.

    We need some suggestions.
  2. What caused the shadows across the eyes? Were they wearing caps/hats?

    Was the SB-800 on the camera?
  3. photoshooter

    photoshooter Guest

    Yes, they were wearing hats or visors.
    It is just terrible, the sun is so bright and the shadows across the eyes.

    Do you have a solution?
  4. You can resurrect much of that with Shadow/Highlight in post processing. You could also have taken two images with one set for the shadows and the other set for the highlights and then combined them in post. The best solution of course is to pose them in the shade.
  5. I dunno, anyone know if it would have helped to have the fill flash coming from below the camera instead of being on the camera?
  6. photoshooter

    photoshooter Guest

    Thanks for the suggestion, we actually used nikon's d-lighting to save these images.
    The subject of layering two shots to get one is a nono in professional photojournalism, fixing the photo without altering the original is acceptable.

    Unfortunately, shooting in the shade is not always possible, again these photos were not staged, having the subjects move to a prefered location would not be acceptable, but there was very little shade available.

    Thanks for your help, i was hoping for some other solutions, i guess you affirmed, what we already knew.
  7. photoshooter

    photoshooter Guest

    The problem with the fill at the high shutter speeds we were metering is that to sync, the flash and the camera at 1/2000, and get some exposure help at the same time, you would have to be on top of the subject, it's just very difficult, when the ambient is so bright and the subject is wearing a hat, that creates a natural shadow.
    We appreciate your help.
  8. How do you "fix" a photo without altering the original?

    And who is "we" ? Are you more than one person using an account?
  9. photoshooter

    photoshooter Guest

    We is me, I prefer using We as opposed to constantly refering to I.
    Not sure what you mean by, more than one person.

    It is acceptable, correct color, contrast, shadows. Altering photo by layering, is not acceptable. It changes the scene, fixing a shadow, so you can see the face, without actually changing the scene is ok.

    Example: two photos layered, one perfectly exposed subject, one perfectly exposed background, the sky for example. This is unacceptable, it changes what you actually photographed.

    I or we are not graphic Illustrators, I am a photojournalist.
  10. Ok, thank you for the clarification of "we." I've not heard of anyone referring to themselves singularly as "we" and thought maybe 2 people were sharing your account.

    As for your example of altering photographs, I'll have to repsectfully disagree. If the face is in shadow, and that's how it photographed, and then you lighten it, ..... per your definition, you've altered it. That's not what you "saw."

    If a scene has a very wide difference in brightness (ie. one where you need to "develop" it via 2 layers), that does not mean you did not see the scene as your final picture portrays.......it means the sensor couldn't handle the dynamic range of the light.

    I've photographed sunsets and had to choose which portion I was exposing for. Had nothing to do with what I saw, and everything to do with the camera not being able to handle the range. I could "see" the beautiful sky colors, and I could also "see" details in the shadows/darker areas.

    Not trying to be rude, I just completely disagree with what you've said. :smile:
  11. Interesting, you didin't preface your question to let us know it was PJ shot you were after nor did you include a photo that you were trying to resurect. Perhaps that would have been a good thing to include in your original query especially since you said the subject was posing?? The range of answers is quite limited now that we know the question. With the sunlight coming over the shoulder of the photographer this somewhat limits the usefulness of fill flash as it will just help to blow out the bright areas so my suggestion would be to shoot from a different angle. In post processing there are some things that you can do and certainly D lighting is one of them. You might also try dodging the dark areas, using levels to bring up the shadows while not affecting the bright ones, using the clone tool in "lighten" on the dark areas, masking, etc. A picture showing the problem would help and would allow us to experiment to come up with a viable solution.
  12. gvk


    Jun 17, 2005
    Mystic, CT
    If fill flash is not effective in bright sunlight, about the best you can do is try adding one or more reflectors to throw some light into the shadow areas, similar to the way they are used in portraiture. This should help for posed shots, and make the post processing that others have suggested easier.
  13. Lets see just what you're talking about. Perhaps then we may be of more help.
  14. post an example would help for sure,.

    ttl-bl I've never tried,. for bright sun put the sun behind them (so they aren't squinting) set the camera to manual (meter for scene -1 stop) with shutter at max flash sync and put flash to manual till it looks ok (generally flash on full to start)

    reflectors or get everyone in shade are usually easier,.

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