Which IR/UV filters do U use?

Discussion in 'Night, InfraRed, and UltraViolet Photography' started by triangular, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. I am so inspired by some of the IR work I've seen here, and now comes the inevitable searching for a filter. I do realize the camera being used makes a difference, as well as processing afterwards. However, I really like the images I've seen from the Hoya R72. Is this the same as the RM72?

    I've noticed the RM72 for 77mm thread is somewhat expensive. More so than the Tiffen 87. But I haven't seen anyone using the 87. Does anyone have experience with this filter?

    What are your favorites and why?
     
  2. Johan

    Johan

    679
    Jun 18, 2005
    Belgium
    Hi Triangular,

    I use two different makes of filters. I have a star, a UV and a polarisation filter by Cokin. I like them a lot, they are good and come quite cheap. The other make I use is B&W I have a circular polarisation filter of this make and it's just FANASTIC. They are quite expensive if you ask me but they are worth the money. So, I recommend them over the Cokin ones. I consider the B&W filter as the best tool in my bag if you see what it can do to your pictures. The colours are very warm and the contrast it just perfect especially if you shoot on very bright days and you set your LW on -0.3 I like to do that because in general situations like when I'm on a holiday and snap a landscape I shoot on ... lets say 1/50s.

    So, If you ask me, I go for B&W ;-)

    Kind Regards

    Johan
     
  3. Johan,

    You are talking specifically about IR photography?

    I'm not familiar with Cokin IR filters, but generally I do like Cokin for other stacked effects. If I remember correctly the Hoya RM72 at 77mm was around $300, while the Tiffen 87 of the same size wasn't much more than $100. Roughly speaking.
     
  4. JMartin

    JMartin Guest

    Christian,

    I have two of the three IR filters (89-B and 87) from:

    Harrison & Harrison Optical Engineers, Inc.
    1835 Thunderbolt Drive, Unit "E"
    Porterville, CA 93257-9300
    Phone: +(559) 782-0121
    Toll free within the USA only: 1-(877) 213-6787
    HarrisonOP@aol.com

    Here is a clip out of an e-mail they sent me a while back, the 67mm and 77mm were in reference to my request, since the two lenses I mainly use are those sizes.

    Please keep in mind, this was out of an e-mail from last year. When I finally got around to ordering them a couple months ago, the 67mm was like $42 so I am sure the 77mm has gone up some too, but I bet it is not $300!!

    I have been working like crazy lately and haven't had much time to play with them, but if you need examples I can take some time at lunch and shoot a few shots with both of my filters.

    Joe
     
  5. Thats very interesting Joe. Thanks for that contact info. I will definitely call them up. That price is so much less than even the Tiffen (which is also U.S. glass), I just wonder how it differs in either the quality or the IR/visible pass-through levels. Do you know what the nm levels are for each of those? I would love if you could either post or email some of your shots with any of these, esp. the 87 (if thats a comparison with other 87's). I was almost ready to buy the Tiffen. My needed screw size is 77m, which is $119 at Adorama.
     
  6. Baywing

    Baywing

    Feb 22, 2005
    CT USA
    I use the H&H 89B, paid a little less for it, but that was a few years ago. There was a site on the net, Chris something or other, I'll add as a edit if I find a link....anyway, he did comparisons of the available IR filters and preferred the 89b to the others. At the time, he had examples side by side and I agree that is the best IR filter for the D100 (and any camera with that sensor). H&H quality is fine, all IR filters are a thin film sandwiched between two flat glass pieces in a ring. I don't know where he buys (or makes) his parts, but as a small operation, he doesn't have the overhead (but does have a backlog often). I'm sure Will Harrison can fill you in on the technical specs if you can't find them searching the net, he's aneat guy to talk with.
    IR photos taken with H&H filters: http://www.pbase.com/baywing/infrared
    Some with the Coolpix and 88a, the D100 shot(s) with the 89b.
     
  7. Yes, Im very happy to have found out about H&H. I just got off the phone with Mr. Harrison, who was very happy to discuss any technical aspect of IR or his filters with me. He even made his own recommendation about which filter to get, based on my description of what I was trying to accomplish. I finally settled on the 89B. It cost 66.25 with shipping for a 77mm thread. For 77mm, that is really very inexpensive. Not only that, but its a custom order that will take him 3 days to make, yet he told me if I wasn't happy with the 89B I could simply send it back for an even trade with any of the other filters I was considering. What a great guy, great price and great customer service. BTW his IR #'s match the Kodak Wratten series for cut-off levels, so you don't have to guess about differences.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
     
  8. JeffKohn

    JeffKohn

    Apr 21, 2005
    Houston, TX
    Interesting. Do these guys sell other filters besides IR, such as maybe a hot mirror filter?
     
  9. JMartin

    JMartin Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2017
  10. JMartin

    JMartin Guest

    Jeff,

    I am not sure what other, if any, filters they sell. I heard about their IR filters by word of mouth.

    They don't have a web site, so the only way to find out is to e-mail or call them to ask. As Baywing states, they are very friendly and willing to answer any questions you have.

    Joe
     
  11. Jeff,

    I did not ask them about their full line. However, Harrisson and Harrisson (sp?) appears to be very well known by the motion picture industry, which seems to be why they never felt the urgency of having a web site for public exposure. They've been in the business for something like 75 years, and if you call you can speak to Mr. Harisson himself. My impression is that there is no filter they either don't make, can't make or won't custom order for you. In fact I think custom orders are a normal part of their business. I would give them a call before dumping the extra cash on a Tiffen or something else, just try em out.
     
  12. Joseph S. Wisniewski

    Joseph S. Wisniewski

    100
    Aug 11, 2005
    Sometimes people get the Hoya number wrong (and they almost never put the dash in the number). There is no RM-72, it's just an R-72. Hoya "RM" filters RM-90 and RM-100 are not "sharp cutoff", which is OK, because they're way up at 900nm and 1000nm, so the soft cutoff (letting through light below 900nm or 1000nm) isn't a severe problem. If there was an actual RM-72, it would pass so much visible red below 720nm that the visible red would totally dominate the picture. Like the mess you get if you try to shoot through a B+W 092 ;)

    With a typical DSLR, you need a sharp cutoff filter that cuts off at 720nm or above. Hoya calls the sharp cutoff filters "red" from 600nm to 720nm (R-60, R-62, R-64, R-66, R-70, R-72). Of those, only R-72 works well for IR photography with an unmodified DSLR.

    Then come the sharp cutoff infrared filters (IR-76, IR-80, IR-83, IR-85). IR-83 is great if you can get it. It gives you monochrome IR like RM-90, but shorter exposures.

    Yes. For most shooting I prefer it, for its "pure" monochrome look. Although I normally use a Lee 87, a Hoya RM-90, or a B+W 093 when I want an "87 family" filter (I cannot stand Tiffen. Ask me why, I dare you :mad: ).

    There are basically two kinds of filters that you have to worry about. Filters that let through a mix of IR and just enough visible red to make a nice "false color" picture, and filters that let through just IR and make pure IR monochrome pictures.

    The pure IR filters include anything with 87 in its name (Hoya 87, H&H 87, Lee 87, Wratten 87) as well as the commonly available B+W 092 and Hoya RM-90. Pure IR filters give you a magenta picture which you can use the camera's white balance, or the PotatoeShop channel mixer to turn into pure monochrome. The IR cutoff frequency is high (780nm to 1000nm, depending on which filter you get) so the IR effect (bright foliage, dark skies) is stronger. Note that some cameras produce slight false color on the 87 filters (Lee, Tiffen, H&H, Wratten). Just enough false color to be annoying in post processing, but not enough to look pretty.

    The mixed IR filters include anything called 89B (Wratten 89B) as well as the Hoya R-72, Cokin 007, Heliopan 715, but NOT the B+W 091.

    For "pure monochrome" I like these two:

    Lee polyester film 87, because it works well, lasts a long time, uses relatively short exposures, and costs $15. But you need a gel holder. I use a Cokin P system gel holder. Costs like $8. Drop a Lee filter (in a Cokin holder) on the ground and it bounces. Dust it off and go back to using it. Drop a 77mm B+W 093 or Hoya RM-90 on the ground, and even an adult male photographer can cry every now and then. A square filter holder in a Cokin mount is great for IR, because it slides on or off without disturbing the lens hood. And it's not a Tiffen.

    B+W 093, because it produces visually near identical results to the Hoya RM-90, but uses shorter exposures.

    For a "mixed color" IR filter, I use these:

    Cokin 007, because it works in the Cokin holders, is cheap, and survives being dropped pretty well.

    Hoya R-72, because I have them in several sizes.

    I do not typically use Wratten gels, for two reasons. First, Wratten gels are gelatin, and are very vulnerable to dirt and moisture. Second, Kodak sold Wratten to Tiffen.

    For UV work, i use mostly a B+W 403. (you did ask about UV).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2005
  13. Wow, I guess you really don't like Tiffen!
    Well I ended up ordering an 89B, precisely because it does allow a little more of the visible to bleed through. I'm hoping this will allow more color data to work with, althoug after reading more about it, I'm a little concerned it might be easy to blow out the red channel. I will have to wait and see I guess.
    Thanks for the great education in IR filters. I will have to think about some of it when I start looking for the next one.
     
  14. Joseph S. Wisniewski

    Joseph S. Wisniewski

    100
    Aug 11, 2005
    Well, the H&H aren't, technically, "U.S. glass". They're gelatin filters, optically cemented between two sheets of glass. This isn't a "bad thing", all polarizers are made this way and except for one :mad: Tiffen :mad: that I had years ago, I've pretty much never seen a polarizer delaminate. The Tiffen are actual solid glass.

    Now, the last time I used an H&H, I though he was laminating the gels in thick glass, two sheets of 3mm clear, so the end result was a 6mm thick stack in a thick holder like a polarizer is mounted in. But that was years ago. I'd heard he's gotten thinner glass and thinner holders. Ask him how thick the filters are, before ordering, if you plan on using this with a wide angle.

    Yes, I do.

    OK, you probably want a better answer than that. The H&H will be exactly 780nm, because he uses genuine Wratten 87 gels. Anything else with 87 in its name (Tiffen, Lee, etc) is a Wratten 87 "clone", and should be pretty close.

    Do you want to hear my views on :eek: Adorama :eek: ?
     
  15. Baywing

    Baywing

    Feb 22, 2005
    CT USA
    I take it you buy your Tiffen filters from Adorama!
     
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