Why Canon is Winning Full-Frame Mirrorless

[Clix Pix]

I made the difficult choice to divorce Nikon and develop a relationship with Sony, or rather, further a relationship in a more meaningful way with the latter, only after much thinking and weighing pros and cons, as I'd already had some experience with some gear in that brand. One of my primary reasons was, yes, to be able to walk into the store and come home with a couple of native macro lenses, since that particular kind of lens is important in much of my shooting style, and also, when I was ready, to purchase other lenses as the clear need and desire arose (which didn't take long in the case of the 200-600 "Bazooka"!). The 90mm macro lens that I bought that first day hardly ever came off the camera for the first few months. It and my 100-400mm that I bought in the spring as a "walk-around" lens are my two top favorites.

I'm happy -- more than merely happy -- with the choices I have made and I'm sure that the same applies to those of you who have made different choices.... We all have different priorities and the option to act on the possibility of making changes if we feel the need.

 

[MortyCapp]

A lot of useful facts can be gained by reading Canon, Nikon and Sony’s financial reports.
I am on my phone and can’t easily do an anaylis yet but the following struck me:
Canon reports sales of cameras as a line item and a business.
Sony does not, Sony reports the sales of imaging sensors. They do not focus on their own brand of cameras.
I will double check but I seem to remember that Sony imaging sensor business is larger than canon’s camera business, about 3x larger.
Happy to be corrected, too many small numbers and slides being read from my smartphone screen.

 

[MortyCapp]

Where it gets interesting is that Canon uses Sony sensors as well as their own, Nikon uses Sony sensors, and Sony keeps the best technology for their own brand for a while before selling it to others.
Market share reports estimates that Canon leads the market with about 40% unit market share, Sony overtook Nikon for #2, in 2019.
Full year reports are published in the summer so we may have to wait for the 2020 update.

 

[MortyCapp]

And despite all the innovation the digital camera market is declining at about 20% a year, Pre-Covid.

 

[JeeperDon]

Back in mid 2019, I (we) had Canon, two 15 yr old bodies and maybe 4 lenses, all sold on eBay to start again from scratch with an empty camera bag. My son (who shot weddings with the Canons) and I went to BestBuy and spent hours doing touchy-feely on all the brands and models. Only the Z6 felt right in our hands (Z7 too, but $$). Then our online research for a few days after told us we weren't nuts going with Nikon over Canon and the others, so here I am. No regrets. (...and nice people at the Cafe!)

 

[Panther]

Where it gets interesting is that Canon uses Sony sensors as well as their own, Nikon uses Sony sensors, and Sony keeps the best technology for their own brand for a while before selling it to others.
Market share reports estimates that Canon leads the market with about 40% unit market share, Sony overtook Nikon for #2, in 2019.
Full year reports are published in the summer so we may have to wait for the 2020 update.

Apparently,
Samsung is getting ready to challenge Sony for Smartphone sensors....

https://petapixel.com/2020/11/23/sa...-position-to-challenge-sony-sensor-dominance/

 

[MortyCapp]

Apparently,
Samsung is getting ready to challenge Sony for Smartphone sensors....

https://petapixel.com/2020/11/23/sa...-position-to-challenge-sony-sensor-dominance/

Yes I read that. They also manufacture for Sony.

 

[Panther]

Here's another interesting read:

New Nikon DSLRs, New F Mount Lenses Muddy Nikon's Waters

 

[Palouse]

Here's another interesting read:

New Nikon DSLRs, New F Mount Lenses Muddy Nikon's Waters

Probably the most anti Nikon folks out there. Extremely one sided and biased.

 

[socrdude]

I would agree that Camera sales overall will continue to decline as Cell phone camera's continue to improve at exponential rates. High end cameras are a niche market where in years ago, folks bought a camera for pictures, now they have their cell phone and dont need a camera. But I guess if you are a professional and make a living selling your work, then the minor things matter, but a buddy of mine sells a ton using his Z7 and Z6 so it works for him. I do it for fun and for myself, so I am not in the market for $$ camera equipment, as someone once asked me, What do you do with all your pictures you take, year after year.. that is a solid point.

 

[Mike Buckley]

What do you do with all your pictures you take, year after year

At a minimum, I present a slide show the first Sunday of every month. The themes vary widely and the images are selected from all images my wife and I have captured since 1983.

 

[Hylander]

I would agree that Camera sales overall will continue to decline as Cell phone camera's continue to improve at exponential rates. High end cameras are a niche market where in years ago, folks bought a camera for pictures, now they have their cell phone and dont need a camera. But I guess if you are a professional and make a living selling your work, then the minor things matter, but a buddy of mine sells a ton using his Z7 and Z6 so it works for him. I do it for fun and for myself, so I am not in the market for $$ camera equipment, as someone once asked me, What do you do with all your pictures you take, year after year.. that is a solid point.

I do it for fun and for myself, too, but for me, taking photos and processing them is an end in itself. I go back over them from time to time, but I really enjoy the process of photography as much as the end result. If nothing else, photography gets me out of the house during my retirement and keeps me away from the bottle for most of the day.

Yes, cell phone cameras can deliver spectacular results in the right hands and sometimes even in the wrong ones, and they're handy when you come across something of interest with nothing else to capture it. But -- and this is personal to me; others may differ -- cell phones are just not as enjoyable as cameras. For one thing, I can't compose as well without using a viewfinder. But most importantly, being able to control exposure, depth of field, white balance, etc. at the moment of capture and not post, is why I prefer a camera to a cell phone. My cell phone is just an implement in my pocket; I've bonded with my Z6.

 

[Palouse]

I do it for fun and for myself, too, but for me, taking photos and processing them is an end in itself. I go back over them from time to time, but I really enjoy the process of photography as much as the end result. If nothing else, photography gets me out of the house during my retirement and keeps me away from the bottle for most of the day.

Yes, cell phone cameras can deliver spectacular results in the right hands and sometimes even in the wrong ones, and they're handy when you come across something of interest with nothing else to capture it. But -- and this is personal to me; others may differ -- cell phones are just not as enjoyable as cameras. For one thing, I can't compose as well without using a viewfinder. But most importantly, being able to control exposure, depth of field, white balance, etc. at the moment of capture and not post, is why I prefer a camera to a cell phone. My cell phone is just an implement in my pocket; I've bonded with my Z6.

Spot on Bill.
I've likened the whole experience of smartphone photography to eating a cold gas station burrito. While the experience of DSLR/ML photography to be the equivalent of a home-cooked, 5-course meal with perfectly matched wines with each course.
Yes, the experience of photography—the creativity, physical and mental effort, luck, skill, trial and error, etc., are all satisfying in their own ways. Making a photo is often more rewarding than displaying a photo.
I've sold 1 photo, given away 100s as gifts and to non-profits, have many on my walls, and have a large and rotating set of screen savers.
To bastardize an old cliche, I photograph therefore I am!

 

[Panther]

What do you do with all your pictures you take, year after year.. that is a solid point.

If it's my Z 6 and D500, then the lions share go to the clients that I shoot for.
My Rangefinders are fun for family and friends...
My Polaroids are mix between clients, family, and friends....

Smart Phone - to social media....

 

[socrdude]

I do it for fun and for myself, too, but for me, taking photos and processing them is an end in itself. I go back over them from time to time, but I really enjoy the process of photography as much as the end result. If nothing else, photography gets me out of the house during my retirement and keeps me away from the bottle for most of the day.

Yes, cell phone cameras can deliver spectacular results in the right hands and sometimes even in the wrong ones, and they're handy when you come across something of interest with nothing else to capture it. But -- and this is personal to me; others may differ -- cell phones are just not as enjoyable as cameras. For one thing, I can't compose as well without using a viewfinder. But most importantly, being able to control exposure, depth of field, white balance, etc. at the moment of capture and not post, is why I prefer a camera to a cell phone. My cell phone is just an implement in my pocket; I've bonded with my Z6.

The cell phone usage was just my point in that folks whom use to buy cameras for family things, trips and such, are just not doing that as the Cell phone or iPad/similar does the job very well. So that market has slowly evaporated as the new Cell phones are amazing day or night photography... fit for purpose for those whom use them, plus with things like SnapSeed, you have a free, powerful editor. So Cameras are now sold for the more serious folks but cameras use to be purchased but a much larger audience.

I am not much of a phone guy, so have an older phone that works for my use, but not for taking photos...
But I see the camera market slowly shrinking more and more, over time as those darn phones with 3 cameras now and low light ability as pretty impressive...

 

[Palouse]

The cell phone usage was just my point in that folks whom use to buy cameras for family things, trips and such, are just not doing that as the Cell phone or iPad/similar does the job very well. So that market has slowly evaporated as the new Cell phones are amazing day or night photography... fit for purpose for those whom use them, plus with things like SnapSeed, you have a free, powerful editor. So Cameras are now sold for the more serious folks but cameras use to be purchased but a much larger audience.

I am not much of a phone guy, so have an older phone that works for my use, but not for taking photos...
But I see the camera market slowly shrinking more and more, over time as those darn phones with 3 cameras now and low light ability as pretty impressive...

I think Bill and I agree with you—but I speak just for myself—there is a large group of instant shooters, as you describe; next are the folks out for the experience of photography, as Bill and I decribe; finally there is the professional group, who use photo equipment to make money. All 3 differ and overlap in many ways, including equipment used, skill level, and subject matter. When we discuss the future of the photo industry we need to keep this in mind.
As Bob Dylan wrote, the times they are a changing!

 

[MortyCapp]

I think Bill and I agree with you—but I speak just for myself—there is a large group of instant shooters, as you describe; next are the folks out for the experience of photography, as Bill and I decribe; finally there is the professional group, who use photo equipment to make money. All 3 differ and overlap in many ways, including equipment used, skill level, and subject matter. When we discuss the future of the photo industry we need to keep this in mind.
As Bob Dylan wrote, the times they are a changing!

All true, however inescapable fact is the decline of the market at 20% a year (photokina press release).

 

[NCV]

https://petapixel.com/2020/11/27/why-canon-is-winning-full-frame-mirrorless/

Interesting read here - this part stands out the most to me:

Unlike Nikon, who is still announcing plans for more DSLRs and F-mount glass in 2021, Canon went all-in on the RF Mount, shifting all of their resources over to RF lens development and releasing the kind of glass you usually only make once you’re confident the mount is here to stay.

DSLR's still sell in good numbers, so maybe it is quite sensible to cater for those who prefer an OVF rather than an EVF. I believe lots of people still prefer the OVF, I certainly do in certain situations.

There are an awful lot of specialist lenses that are not present in anybody's mirrorless line-up, PC lenses come to mind, and working with adaptors in a pain in the backside. I prefer to mount my F mount lenses on a DSLR.

A tweak here and a tweak there on the DSLR range does not have much effect on R&D. Sure the Z mount will eventually will replace the F mount, but I do not see the rush.

 

[Mike Buckley]

But I see the camera market slowly shrinking more and more

It has been rapidly shrinking and I see no reason for that to change at least for the next two to three years.

 

[Palouse]

Yes, the market for cameras has shrunk and will continue to do so for a while. What should the camera makers have done? Invented smartphones and ruled that segment?