Why Canon is Winning Full-Frame Mirrorless

[Clix Pix]

Yes, the smartphone advances in technology have definitely made huge inroads on the P&S segment of the photography industry. People who would only pull out their P&S for a few photos at holiday and birthday celebrations or for vacations now haven't bought a new P&S in years -- why should they, when they've got their smartphone with them all the time and can take photos wherever they are, whatever they're doing, show everybody what they're having for lunch or dinner, and instantly share them with the world on Instagram, FaceBook and such?

Although I don't put images on Instagram or FB, I do enjoy using my iPhone if I happen to be out somewhere and see something interesting which captures my attention and I think, "ooh, that would be an interesting photo!" I pull out the iPhone, fire off a few snaps and am on my way. Sometimes I'm surprised later by the quality of the image and will go on to edit it a bit, use it in my 52 weeks project or for sharing with a friend. most of the time the images are just snapshots, though, of a fun or intriguing subject.

Occasionally at home I also will get an idea and think, "wonder if it would work if I do this and that?" and before getting out the real camera and setting things up properly, I'll do a couple of quick experimental shots with the iPhone to see if the idea is even worth pursuing. Occasionally the iPhone results turn out to be winners themselves, or more often they'll show me that whatever I had wanted to do just isn't feasible. Sometimes an app that I've got in the iPhone is useful for creating special effects images, and I've occasionally done that in preference to using my other gear. It's sometimes faster and easier to just use the slo-mo app in the iPhone than it is to tinker with the settings in my A7R IV!!!

 

[Panther]

A tweak here and a tweak there on the DSLR range does not have much effect on R&D. Sure the Z mount will eventually will replace the F mount, but I do not see the rush.

So think about it like this...
Since Nikon has limited funds, does it really make sense for them to continue to invest in the past (F mount), or should they concentrate on the future? (Z mount)

 

[MortyCapp]

So think about it like this...
Since Nikon has limited funds, does it really make sense for them to continue to invest in the past (F mount), or should they concentrate on the future? (Z mount)

Their problem is that most of their revenues come from the past.
And the past users are not migrating to their future platform.
By forcing Nikon users of the past to go to the Nikon future they are giving them the opportunity to switch brand.
Not to mention that they seem to fail to attract as many new users to the future as they hoped to.
Financially it is tricky.

 

[MortyCapp]

I would also say that we may not be the right target for Nikon to grow.
It is a demographics thing.

 

[Palouse]

So think about it like this...
Since Nikon has limited funds, does it really make sense for them to continue to invest in the past (F mount), or should they concentrate on the future? (Z mount)

Nikon built equipment for the ages, equipment that lasts. By continuing to support the F mount and its legions of contemporary users (10 times as many as us Z mount folks?) Nikon is signaling that it loyal to us and in this for the long run. The F mount is still very much a contemporary mount too!
Fads come and go, and Nikon has never been good at faddish stuff!

 

[West]

Sony has it covered ...
https://www.engadget.com/2019-12-25-sony-image-sensor-supply-and-demand.html#:~:text=The largest manufacturer of these,11 Pro that Apple makes.
Nikon should spend less time on it's camera business and be more aggressive in their corporate optics division. Diversify or die.

 

[NCV]

So think about it like this...
Since Nikon has limited funds, does it really make sense for them to continue to invest in the past (F mount), or should they concentrate on the future? (Z mount)

But none of us know what the budget is so it is just speculation.

 

[MortyCapp]

But none of us know what the budget is so it is just speculation.

Financial accounts are your friend.

 

[jbailey930]

I thought the title of this thread was about full frame mirrorless not camera phones......

I was taught there is no "winner" until the game is over /called. So lets hope competition keeps all the manufacturers engaged to deliver consumers many options based on their preference!

 

[Panther]

But none of us know what the budget is so it is just speculation.

You don't have to know the budget for an educated guess.
But you can look at the size of Nikon compared to Sony, Canon, and Fuji, and then look at the earnings of each company respectively.....

 

[Panther]

So lets hope competition keeps all the manufacturers engaged to deliver consumers many options based on their preference!

Agreed 100%!!
I thought Samsung was on the footsteps of a great system a few years back - I was waiting for their "generation 2" for lack of a better word....and then they withdrew from the market....

 

[MortyCapp]

Agreed 100%!!
I thought Samsung was on the footsteps of a great system a few years back - I was waiting for their "generation 2" for lack of a better word....and then they withdrew from the market....

Typically Samsung needs to become a market leader within 2-3 years.
Their business culture is ruthless.

 

[Clix Pix]

Their problem is that most of their revenues come from the past.
And the past users are not migrating to their future platform.
By forcing Nikon users of the past to go to the Nikon future they are giving them the opportunity to switch brand.
Not to mention that they seem to fail to attract as many new users to the future as they hoped to.
Financially it is tricky.

The problem for me,. and I suspect many others, is that while they are still trying to build their Z line and S lenses, at this point Nikon still does not offer what some potential customers would want and or absolutely need, and so at that point, the individual is going to look somewhere else for whatever it is....and if another company already offers both a desirable camera body or two or three, and even more importantly, the native lenses available to work with any of those chosen bodies, well.....sure, a lot of people are going to go for the gear that offers just what it is they want and need right now, and, yes, say goodbye to Nikon.....

 

[andreasb]

First of all I really don't think Petapixel is all that much to believe in either and I don't agree with this part: and releasing the kind of glass you usually only make once you’re confident the mount is here to stay.

IMO: Canon has released some very good and some way to expensive glass for the RF mount, while Nikon has all the right glass for me: F4 Zooms and F1.8 primes for a better bang for the buck. This mirrors my current lens set for the F mount, for wide-angle, portrait and hopefully soon Macro. We are all different in our needs: for most peoples needs this is a very good much more affordable lens set that Canon does not have. Sony have a ton of lenses but an old mount, and a few of their lenses are getting older, and both Nikon and Canon can use all their old lenses and they work perfectly.

IMHO if you are not a birder or into shallow DOF portraiture (wanting to have the focus on the eye ball), all the brands a have excellent products that will take wonderful quality images if there is a good photographer using them. Maybe with the Z6 & Z7 II, the Nikons have gotten better at the eye AF getting closer to the eye ball I hope so, however the birder side is still behind, from the previews I have seen.

What Nikon has not released is a body that excites me as a birder, Both Canon (R5 & R6) and Sony A9II are quite a bit ahead in this regard. My Canon R5 has phenomenal animal Eye-AF, deep buffer, top speed of 20fps, and so does the Sony A9II, it could very well be even slightly better than the R5 (according to my friend who has both cameras)

Nikon has the 500mm PF F5.6 and its a great lens but both Canon and Sony have 600mm F4 lenses that weigh as much as Nikons 500mm F4 FL, Nikon is clearly behind here, this has not been their focus, in a year this will be all different.

But all of this does not mean Nikon is disappearing - just that their strategy is a bit different to get where they want to be and when

As always they way one can help Nikon stay in business is to buy their products

 

[Panther]

Fads come and go, and Nikon has never been good at faddish stuff!

I think the thing is, mirrorless isn't a fad - and if you look at Fuji and Sony, I'd say it's here to stay....
What Sony (IMHO) has neatly done is to cut into the full frame DSLR market with some of their entry level mirrorless systems - hence the now the Nikon Z 5....

 

[Mike Buckley]

As always they way one can help Nikon stay in business is to buy their products

I can't relate to the idea of helping an international company stay in business. It seems to me that they should be offering the world the kind of products and services at competitive prices to stay in business. If they do that, nobody will have to urge people to buy their products.

 

[Clix Pix]

[snipped]
As always they way one can help Nikon stay in business is to buy their products

Ah..... Not if they do not offer the products which I personally want to use in my photography!!!

 

[ac12]

The problem for me,. and I suspect many others, is that while they are still trying to build their Z line and S lenses, at this point Nikon still does not offer what some potential customers would want and or absolutely need, and so at that point, the individual is going to look somewhere else for whatever it is....and if another company already offers both a desirable camera body or two or three, and even more importantly, the native lenses available to work with any of those chosen bodies, well.....sure, a lot of people are going to go for the gear that offers just what it is they want and need right now, and, yes, say goodbye to Nikon.....

This presumes that the Nikon dSLR user HAS TO switch to mirrorless.

The dSLR user could just keep using their dSLR, until Nikon has the mirrorless camera and lenses that he wants.​

However, there might be reasons that the dSLR user would want to switch NOW, rather than wait. And the FTZ adapter provides a bridge.​

​

Or, this is a completely NEW user, who is looking to buy into their first FF system.

IOW, not a current Nikon or Canon dSLR user.​

So for both Nikon AND Canon, the question is, do they have the mirrorless cameras and native lenses that a potential user wants. They may not have a full native lens landscape, but if the desired lenses are there, then who cares about the rest of the landscape.​

Example, if all I want are the 24-70 and 70-200, both Nikon and Canon have them, and I am happy.​

But if I want a native macro, neither Nikon nor Canon have one. Then what are the options?​

If you want a full native lens landscape to pick from NOW, then the only current option is Sony, not Canon.​

 

[ac12]

As I've said before, the magic word here is "LENSES." It's all about the native lenses, even more than it is about the bodies, and at this point in time Nikon is way behind with native lenses, while I guess Canon is surging forward a little faster because some of their earlier lenses work on their new bodies without fussing with an adapter? I'm not at all familiar with Canon and their offerings, past or current, but have gotten this impression somewhere. In the meantime Sony has a nice selection of native lenses ready and waiting for the customer -- who just has to select what he or she wants to go with the new FF mirrorless body he or she is buying....and Sony is still adding more lenses, so even as the others continue to scramble to catch up, Sony's coming out with new offerings....

The Canon EF lenses require an EF to R adapter, to work on the R series mirrorless cameras.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...nses/ef/mount-adapters/mount-adapter-ef-eos-r

 

[Jonathan F/2]

I'm split between Sony mirrorless and Nikon DSLRs. I like Sony's collection of small primes and huge third party selection. On the Nikon side, I just prefer Nikon's flash system, access to PF telephoto lenses and cheaper (and better) f/2.8 and f/4 zooms. So yeah, I'm content being a multi-camera system shooter!