wind turbines

Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
4,976
Location
Collecchio, northern Italy
Hello everyone

I'd like to ask you what's your experience about them.
In our area we have just discovered that 9 poles 150 m (about 490 ft) and 16 poles 170 m tall ( 560 ft ) will be installed on our Apennin.
To give you a reference, a single blade of the poles should be as tall as the Dome of Milan or the Coliseum. Go figure how hard is moving them on trucks!

While we're surely favorable to clean energy, we think such poles are definitely huge and oversized compared to both the available wind here and especially where they should be placed, on top of some wooden hills which are both a seismic area and at hydro-geological risk as well. Plus it means a large deforesting along the whole path to those hills because roads aren't large and adequate enough to deal with such huge loads and sizes.

I won't question them politically, it's our problem, but for those who have it, could you share your experience how they really impact daily living? They said they will be visible 50 miles far away if no more. Once realized, if you come here I'll show you the next "8th wonder of the world" lol :)

For those interested in the project, I invite you to check it here:

https://www.facebook.com/EolicoSantaDonna

And this is for the taller and wider wind poles field. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...85187065.42560.168354296517254&type=1&theater
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,873
Location
London
There are arguments for and against their efficiency but I would much rather see wind farms than coal fired power plants or nuclear power stations although it's true, half the planet would need to be taken over by wind farms if we wanted them to generate the same amount of power :wink:

There is a lot of 'not in my back yard' feeling about them but we have them in my home county and I've seen fields and fields of them in other countries and I don't think they look too bad. What would you rather have instead?
 
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Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
1,994
Location
nyc
where we had our second home in pa where they put in a wind turbine farm.

it was horrible.

the blades cast a stobe effect over the entire area driving the locals nuts. the noise and whirring is quite annoying 24/7.

farmers complained that bugs natural and important to their farming vanished from the change in wind patterns.

the reduction in rates never came either.

i vote photo's 2 and 3 after seeing the wind mill work first hand.
 
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Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
703
Location
Beachside!
You are not going to like them one bit. They are a eyesore but that's the good news. I don't have the figure's but they kill birds at a alarming rate. Not sure why but eagles seem to be totally oblivious to them and get chewed up.
Headaches seem to be a large complaint from people that live close.
Gary
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
4,976
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Collecchio, northern Italy
Well the area is not densely abitated and of course I'd prefer wind energy rather than coal or oil. However, I'm just wondering HOW MUCH TALL they will look once installed.. It's not much a "not in my back yard" thing rather they are truly oversized for the place they are going to be installed.. We're talking about 500+ ft tall poles... longer than a football stadium, or something like this.. :eek:
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,873
Location
London
Well the area is not densely abitated and of course I'd prefer wind energy rather than coal or oil. However, I'm just wondering HOW MUCH TALL they will look once installed.. It's not much a "not in my back yard" thing rather they are truly oversized for the place they are going to be installed.. We're talking about 500+ ft tall poles... longer than a football stadium, or something like this.. :eek:

Take some pictures of the area as it is now and find some scale pictures of wind turbines and photoshop them together! That'll give you a good idea of what to expect :wink:
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
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3,968
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truro cornwall uk
We live in turbine county down here in the southwest and they drive people to distraction, eyesores/constant noise and quite frankly not even cost effective, they start with shorter ones and then pull those down replacing them with ones twice the height. farmers and private dwellings now get permission to install them in singles. The constructors sign great deals with the state and reap in large rewards with contracts lasting many years, I think you will see where I am going with this my mate worked fro the electricity supply company.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,873
Location
London
I live in Palm Springs and the pass entering our valley has thousands of these windmills some of the older ones are not that large, but the newest ones are huge. here is a snap I took of 2 of the newest ones. These actually have an entire workshop in the head with a roll up garage door on the back with a swing out crane that can lift repair parts up into it without the need for an external crane. They are so large they even have elevators inside them so that the workers can get up to the top.


when they are standing there out away from everything like these are they dont seem nearly as large as they are. Walk up and stand next to one and you get a much better idea.

some people here think they are ugly, but to be completely honest I think they are cool - I would love to be able to go up inside and check one out :biggrin:

I've hiked along the Lykken trail and looked down on those and I agree they look pretty cool. Do you know what % of power they provide for the area?
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
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Collecchio, northern Italy
As far as I can see, they are in a desert area and I know also in Denmark they are in open sea. Can you imagine climbing a narrow mountain road and cut every tree on it and dig and straighten any bend because trucks can't pass ? This means devastating a whole area...

Next time you pass there, probably a car near them might give better idea of the size but sure they already look huge and I esteem they are about 200 ft tall. Go figure 2 and half of those...
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
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25,789
Location
SW Virginia
Here is where I think they look really out of place - along the front range of the Canadian Rockies in Alberta:

DSC_4975-X2.jpg
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That photo doesn't show the entire array of several hundred wind turbines. And the whole lot generates just 70 MW of electricity, whereas one modern nuclear reactor generates over 1000 MW. Most nuclear plants include at least two reactors, generating well over 2,000 MW, using a small fraction of the land area.

Himself standing beside one in September, 2005:

DSC_4960-XL.jpg
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Joined
Apr 29, 2011
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514
Location
The Netherlands
I am from the windmill country and I like windmills, though I much prefer the old ones. There are some windmill farms or lines across dikes by the sea in my area. I gruel every time I see those ugly things. In some of our favourite vacation areas in Germany some winmdill farms have been placed. They are a monstrous standout and just don't deliver that much power to pay off the ugliness.

Mind you, I am all for nature and stuff, but I'd rather see some more funding for solar energy. That way, the government doesn't mutilate the landscape.

In the end, I find them a safety hazard too. When new, they are a-ok, but there have been reports of blades breaking off, one even landing on the A6 highway.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
3,972
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Chicago
First it was fences, then telephone wires, and now turbines. What you need is clout to keep them away.

What happens. the blade tips are 100 MPH and they make noise. If they are close enough and at certain sun angles, you get a nice strobe light effect into your windows from the blades. It is exceedingly annoying.

So now we come down to power the ever growing population. We have dammed up every river. Burning coal is not too great. Much has to be done to clean that up emission wise. Gas fired power plants will make home heating gas expensive and they still dump a lot of CO 2 into the air.

Atomic is problems with ground stability, meltdowns, used fuel disposal, terrorism.

There is a program called breader reactor that makes it own fuel from spent fuel. A pilot was set up in Idaho run by Argonne Lab. The president stopped that program between 1996 and 2002. Figure out who that was. That is a "safe "reactor too.

Cold fusion is not developed and shows little hope.

The only thing not exploited is tide generation of power although it is done in europe and geothermal.

I suppose we could fill the desert with silicone and capture sun.

They want electric cars. Where is that power supposed to come from.

To maintain the American lifestyle, something has to give.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
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3,144
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Alaska
As I understand, the biggest problem with wind generation, is that you still need to have power plants that generate enough energy when the wind isn't doing so unless there is some means of storage for the energy produced by wind. That means that the power plant must keep running even when the wind is producing large amounts of power. The same would be true for solar power. If it's cloudy, or dark, PV doesn't produce power. With a small home system, like we have, we store energy in a large battery bank, so when the sun provides power with our solar panels, it charges our batteries. When the sun doesn't provide power, our diesel generator does. Most large power plants can't simply idle down, and then start up quickly enough if the wind stops, or if the solar panels stop producing due to clouds.
 
Joined
May 5, 2005
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25,789
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SW Virginia
As I understand, the biggest problem with wind generation, is that you still need to have power plants that generate enough energy when the wind isn't doing so unless there is some means of storage for the energy produced by wind. That means that the power plant must keep running even when the wind is producing large amounts of power. The same would be true for solar power. If it's cloudy, or dark, PV doesn't produce power. With a small home system, like we have, we store energy in a large battery bank, so when the sun provides power with our solar panels, it charges our batteries. When the sun doesn't provide power, our diesel generator does. Most large power plants can't simply idle down, and then start up quickly enough if the wind stops, or if the solar panels stop producing due to clouds.

Precisely. You need 100% backup.
 
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
12,140
Location
Western Slope of Colorado
As I understand, the biggest problem with wind generation, is that you still need to have power plants that generate enough energy when the wind isn't doing so unless there is some means of storage for the energy produced by wind. That means that the power plant must keep running even when the wind is producing large amounts of power. The same would be true for solar power. If it's cloudy, or dark, PV doesn't produce power. With a small home system, like we have, we store energy in a large battery bank, so when the sun provides power with our solar panels, it charges our batteries. When the sun doesn't provide power, our diesel generator does. Most large power plants can't simply idle down, and then start up quickly enough if the wind stops, or if the solar panels stop producing due to clouds.

Precisely. You need 100% backup.

Exactly correct, guys - that is precisely why there have been ongoing federally-funded research awards aimed at developing nanoscale batteries, supercapacitors, and other scalable storage devices. Those grants have been endangered by the recent sequestration, yet I'm confident that scientists and engineers will eventually solve the aperiodic problems with both solar and wind energy.
 

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