z6 and lightroom settings

[mathjak107]

now this was interesting ..typically when shooting raw in camera settings like sharpening or noise reduction do not take effect in lightroom..the adobe defaults take over and all images are defaulted to the same regardless of picture control settings .

well , it seems the z6 camera settings are interpreted by lightroom .. import a raw dng shot in standard picture control and you will see sharpening of 132/2.0/15 and noise reduction of 30/75/0... then import a raw dng shot in neutral ...you will see sharpening set at 22/2.0/25 and noise reduction at 29/75/0

wow , this is news to me as in camera settings in raw never effected things .... but note this ... if you shot the picture in standard picture control and after the fact changed the setting in adobe to adobe neutral , or vivid or any other setting , sharpness and noise reduction are not altered after the picture is imported . so switching picture controls out of camera is not the same as shooting in camera . adobe lets you switch picture controls in the lr software but it does not make the same changes to sharpening and noise reduction as if you shot it in camera originally

 

[mathjak107]

funny that on may 18th jason odell wrote an article how shooting raw will not carry over many settings in to lightroom ... then on may 22 had to add a revision that the z6 and z7 will ...

it is also advisable if you shoot raw to turn off the ADL . it can do wierd things to your exposures now that it carries over.

Shoot Raw? You can ignore these In-Camera Settings | Jason P. Odell Photography

 

[daveg]

This is well known and has been discussed at length, if not here, then at another forum since around February/March when I got my Z 6.

It also applies to ACR which I use almost exclusively, along with the occasional use of NX-D.

The issue surrounding the use of ADL with RAW files has also been around a long time. It is more suited to the JPEG shooter than the RAW shooter. It alters the exposure before applying corrections and is non-recoverable.

DG

 

[mathjak107]

i just got the z6 monday so all these things are still new to me ... i can see lightroom reading the metadata and self adjusting but what makes no sense though is the fact that in lightroom they give you options in the program to change from say standard to neutral to vivid , etc , after the fact , yet it makes no changes in sharpening or noise reduction when it lets you change .

 

[daveg]

Try setting Neutral in-camera and Quick Sharp at -1. Choose the Camera-matching Neutral V2 in ACR.

That will zero out all in camera settings relative to Picture Control and will be reflected in ACR.

DG

 

[Randy]

I'm just curious:
so in camera settings like sharpening go with the RAW file to LR ?

 

[Randy]

funny that on may 18th jason odell wrote an article how shooting raw will not carry over many settings in to lightroom ... then on may 22 had to add a revision that the z6 and z7 will ...

it is also advisable if you shoot raw to turn off the ADL . it can do wierd things to your exposures now that it carries over.

Shoot Raw? You can ignore these In-Camera Settings | Jason P. Odell Photography

I'm pretty sure an exposure change (Aperture,SS or ISO) has always stayed with the raw file

 

[mathjak107]

I'm just curious:
so in camera settings like sharpening go with the RAW file to LR ?

YES but so far that applies to the z6 and z7. up to now nikon cameras never had these recognized in raw

 

[Randy]

YES but so far tht applies to the z6 and z7

I guess its easy enough to turn everything off in camera.....mine are always left on default so i'd have to check.

 

[mathjak107]

I guess its easy enough to turn everything off in camera.....mine are always left on default so i'd have to check.

somethings are ignored like noise reduction . i set it to off and lr still adds some even though it reads my settings and sees it is off ... .

 

[gryphon1911]

LR adds some default sharpening and noise reduction to all RAW files.

Since the Nikon D850, for some reason - perhaps at the request of Nikon, I'm not sure though...Adobe has been reading and applying the Picture Control settings to D850 and Z camera RAW files.

This has been known for some time and the most common work around is for people to apply a custom preset upon import to all RAW files that zeroes everything out.

 

[Ann_JS]

Are you using the "Default" settings as provided by Adobe for ACR and Lr?

I don't have a Z6 or 7 and I don't know if ACR is reading the in-camera Picture Controls or if Adobe are reverse-engineering them for inclusion as Presets in their Camera Profiles.

I change all of the Settings in ACR, in each separate Tab (especially Sharpening because I prefer Deconvolution to USM), and then save the whole caboodle as a new "ACR Default".

I also use my own sets of x-Rite generated Camera Profiles instead of the Adobe ones although the Adobe Profiles are now quite good.

 

[mathjak107]

adovbe is actually reading the in camera settings and adjusting itself ... i already proved it does not reverse engineer well at all .. picking an adobe nikon profile after it is imported does not alter things like sharpening and noise reduction anymore

 

[Ann_JS]

None of the Adobe Camera Profiles included the Sharpening although they did include a built-in but hidden adjustment Curve.

The Sharpening & Noise settings has always depended upon the way in which the Details Panel is configured by Default — unless the User changes them and stores a new "Default".

If you open the Details Panel, can you not change each of the preset settings if you are are shooting a Z6/Z7?

Not being able to do that would be a game-stopper for me because the Adobe Sharpening Defaults are not the best for the way I work.

(I very seldom use the auto Lens Corrections either, because they detract from the acuity of the lens, so (except for CA Removal) I disable them in my Default Settings.)

 

[daveg]

In ACR the important settings are:

Reset Camera RAW Defaults

Save New Camera RAW Defaults

If you Reset Camera RAW Defaults then the In-Camera settings for Picture Control and Sharpening (and some other settings) are recognised.

With an Image opened in ACR, if you then "Save New Camera RAW Defaults" all subsequently opened images from that camera will open with the saved defaults.

Example:

I took an image with the Standard PC and all sharpening zeroed out. Opened it in ACR and clicked on "Save New Camera RAW Defaults". I then opened an image which I know was taken with the Neutral PC. The Image opened in ACR with the Saved Standard PC and zeroed Sharpening.

I clicked on "Reset Camera RAW Defaults" and the Image reverted to the In-Camera Settings for PC and Sharpening.

DG

P.S. To answer Anne's question, all settings are editable and "savable" as a New Default.

 

[Walter Rowe]

YES but so far that applies to the z6 and z7. up to now nikon cameras never had these recognized in raw

The camera setting have always been in the raw files. Nikon's own software recognizes them so this proves they are in the raw file. Only in the last couple of years has Adobe seemingly worked with Nikon (or reverse engineered enough) to be able to extract them and apply them in some "meaningful" way. Thom Hogan addressed this in this blog post "Are Adobe and Nikon Cooperating?".

 

[Ann_JS]

>>>P.S. To answer Anne's question, all settings are editable and "savable" as a New Default>>>

Thank you for that confirmation.

I had hoped, and assumed, that all ACR Settings would still be entirely User-configurable (although I personally am not planning to use Picture Controls or buy a Z-anything!).

 

[daveg]

Hi Anne,

Whether or not you decide to buy a Nikon Mirrorless is neither here nor there.

However, in the strictest sense you cannot "not use Picture Controls". You cannot turn them off in-camera. You can zero them out but you cannot turn them off. Your camera MUST be set to one PC or another, but whether you choose to ignore them in post is up to you.

When you get your D6, there is a high possibility that Adobe will, in the first instance, recognise whatever it is defaulting to (Standard) and apply those settings to your NEFs because of Nikon's current (apparent) arrangement with Adobe. You can then do what many already do with their Z6/7 and set up your own profile. If you are not an Adobe user it will not affect you anyway.

I have (reluctantly) moved over to Adobe (and ACR) from Nikon NX2/NX-D having used Photoshop for many years for finishing, so using PC's is part of the way I have always worked. But I wouldn't dream of putting anyone down who doesn't think the way I do for whatever reason.

I'm really enjoying my Z 6 at the moment!

DG

 

[Ann_JS]

Just because my own purchasing plans do not currently include a Z, I was definitely not "putting down" anyone for the kind of camera that they choose to buy!

I was only mentioning it because I only ever shoot RAW and never even glance at the Picture Controls (because it makes no difference in an optical viewfinder how the P-Cs are set). In my case, my P-Cs are actually set at Camera Neutral because that causes the least mis-displaying by that non-useful in-camera JPG Histogram. I turn Blinkies off too.

Shooting purely RAW, and using only my own camera Exposure Meter EV settings; and my own ACR Camera Profiles and Settings, makes the whole Camera Profile issue entirely moot anyway.

ACR opens my NEFs with my own ACR Defaults already set so it does never opens in Adobe Standard or Camera Standard but always with my own customized Camera Profile and the thumbnails reflect my own ACR Default settings.

I also pay scant attention to my back-screen with just an occasional glance (usually at the very beginning and again at the end of a shoot) just to see that the images have been recorded on the card safely — hopefully before I leave the location but sometimes not until I am in the car while we are driving away.

This is probably due to my shooting film for so many years when one simply had to know instinctively if you were getting the shots (or not!) but would need to wait until the films emerged from the developing tank to be certain.
(I very seldom bothered with Polaroids except when working away from the studio and using large-format film on location for a client.)

 

[BillM]

Use the Auto Picture Control and you can watch ACR default values for sharpening, noise reduction and saturation change with the scene and subject. Aggressive sharpening with noise reduction for many shots.

As as been said before, it is easy enough to save your own defaults for Z6 / Z7 images in LR Classic and ACR. The new cloud based LR seems to honor settings saved in LR Classic or ACR while the tablet version seems to go its own way.