Z6 questions

[Randy]

can the shutter be silent using the EVF
how does high iso compare to the D5
How is the AF, what DSLR is more like it in the AF dept

I'm stuck at home shooting song birds, very close, often, close enough to fill the frame at 500m... and the D5 shutter is a big problem

 

[daveg]

1. Yes, but not with flash.
2. Do not know.
3. As good as, if not a lot better than my D750 in most respects. Pin Point AF is amazing, but it is AF-S only.

 

[MNglass]

can the shutter be silent using the EVF
how does high iso compare to the D5
How is the AF, what DSLR is more like it in the AF dept

I'm stuck at home shooting song birds, very close, often, close enough to fill the frame at 500m... and the D5 shutter is a big problem

+1 to Daveg above.

I don't know how rapid the action might be on your small song birds but it is worth noting that the silent shutter has a scan time of somewhere around 1/16 - 1/20th second. That is, rapid motion across the frame (particularly if you are filling it) might be subject to some distortion.

 

[Randy]

+1 to Daveg above.

I don't know how rapid the action might be on your small song birds but it is worth noting that the silent shutter has a scan time of somewhere around 1/16 - 1/20th second. That is, rapid motion across the frame (particularly if you are filling it) might be subject to some distortion.

What do you mean by distortion ?

 

[MNglass]

What do you mean by distortion ?

In silent shutter mode, the electronics read each horizontal row of pixels consecutively and it takes about 1/20th of a second to do that. Consequently the bottom row of pixels is read 1/20 of a second after the top row. An object (think of a helicopter blade) is going to be in a different position 1/20th of a second later, so it ends up looking curved or distorted in the frame. I've seen this with hummingbird images.

 

[BillM]

The pure Electronic shutter is absolutely silent but unusable for pretty much anything that moves.

The Z6 Electronic First Curtain Shutter is very quiet. Much quieter than the D500. I leave mine to automatically select mechanical or EFCS. If the shutter speed is 1/2000 or longer EFCS works. Above 1/2000 it switches to mechanical which is still quieter than the D500.

Max ISO on Z6 is 51,200. 1600 is good, 3200 is pretty good, 6400 depends on the subject and lighting. 12,800 starts losing detail but can still be made to work.

It is as good or better than the D4, I do not have a D5.

 

[MNglass]

Well I wouldn't say the Electronic Shutter is unusable for anything that moves. It depends on the subject and the movement (although I agree that EFCS is safer).

Below is a quick and dirty example of the ES distortion on a rapidly turning fan blade. Both at 1/500 SS. The first one with EFCS enabled; the second is with ES.

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[bsinc1962]

Here's a couple of high iso shots I took with the Z6.

https://www.nikoncafe.com/threads/nikon-z-pics-thread.312750/post-4035168

 

[Mike Buckley]

Thom Hogan's guide to using the Z6/Z7 says the following about using Silent Photography (which includes silent shutter, of course), some of which has already been discussed in the thread:

"Rolling shutter impacts can be seen. Since the electronic shutter doesn’t pull the entire image off the sensor simultaneously, it produces a rolling shutter impact. It typically takes near 1/20 second (best case) for the scan to go from top to the bottom of the frame. This has two impacts: (1) if the subject or camera is moving, vertical lines will get “bent”; and (2) some third-party lens stabilization systems aren’t tuned to the rolling shutter and produce even stranger 'carnival mirror' type distortions. Avoid using Silent photography with moving subjects, and avoid using image stabilization with Silent photography."

He also explains that the rate of maximum frames per second is also reduced when using the electronic shutter.

 

[Randy]

Thom Hogan's guide to using the Z6/Z7 says the following about using Silent Photography (which includes silent shutter, of course), some of which has already been discussed in the thread:

"Rolling shutter impacts can be seen. Since the electronic shutter doesn’t pull the entire image off the sensor simultaneously, it produces a rolling shutter impact. It typically takes near 1/20 second (best case) for the scan to go from top to the bottom of the frame. This has two impacts: (1) if the subject or camera is moving, vertical lines will get “bent”; and (2) some third-party lens stabilization systems aren’t tuned to the rolling shutter and produce even stranger 'carnival mirror' type distortions. Avoid using Silent photography with moving subjects, and avoid using image stabilization with Silent photography."

He also explains that the rate of maximum frames per second is also reduced when using the electronic shutter.

wow, that shuts the door hard for me, the silent + VR is a show stopper
I remain baffled why anyone but a LS shooter would buy mirrorless, I keep trying but I think I'll wait until mirrorless is ready for the real world

so what were the mirrorless advantages again ? another why example: Put a 3lb 70-200 z on a tiny body, hmmmmm seems like we already discovered bad balance

 

[Mike Buckley]

so what were the mirrorless advantages again ?

I'm only one week into using my first mirrorless system, but I have already determined the following are clear advantages for the type of photography I do (which is not the same as what you do):

Focus peaking
Image in view finder changes when exposure settings change.
Histogram displays before releasing the shutter.
Captured image can be displayed and magnified in the view finder (great when bright light makes viewing the rear LCD difficult)
Image stabilization built into the camera (not that a mirrorless system is required to make that happen, but I think Nikon does it only with mirrorless cameras)
Automatic switching from LCD display to viewfinder display (whether it's the image or the menu system, both are displayed in the rear LCD and the viewfinder)
Polarized sunglasses don't affect the display in the viewfinder (though the viewfinder on some mirrorless systems apparently are affected)

I remain baffled why anyone but a LS shooter would buy mirrorless

Let's not leave out tabletop, macro, high-speed flash, architectural, forensic photography and probably others that don't immediately come to mind off the top of my head. The photography world really isn't divided only into landscape photography and all other photography.

 

[daveg]

Randy,

With respect, you are, perhaps, making your decisions on other people's interpretations of scenarios that are unlikely if ever going to happen. You are surely in a position to rent or otherwise acquire a Z6 to make up your own mind?

DG

 

[Mike Buckley]

About Thom Hogan's comment that "some third-party lens stabilization systems aren’t tuned to the rolling shutter and produce even stranger 'carnival mirror' type distortions. Avoid using Silent photography with moving subjects, and avoid using image stabilization with Silent photography."

the silent + VR is a show stopper

Hogan should have been clearer because it might be misleading. On the one hand he's saying that some third-party lens stabilization systems are problematic when using a Z6 or Z7 and silent photography. Then he says never to use any lens image stabilization system with Nikon's silent photography. It's not clear in my mind that he is saying that Nikon VR and Z6 or Z7 silent photography are incompatible. The only thing that's clear in my mind is that he is cautioning everyone to play it safe and to avoid using VR with silent photography because some lenses might be incompatible.

Even so, I'm still baffled why you are even thinking about using a Z6 or Z7. You hated the viewfinder in the Z50, which is the same as the viewfinder in the Z6 and Z7.

 

[F15Todd]

Agreed with taking one out for a test drive. You can get a 7-day rental from LensRentals.com for the Z6 and FTZ for $190. When I was thinking about the move to Sony I used them and rented the A9ii.

I was successful in using the Z6 to cover football, soccer, and basketball so it can be done. But I never really used the silent shutter.

 

[Randy]

About Thom Hogan's comment that "some third-party lens stabilization systems aren’t tuned to the rolling shutter and produce even stranger 'carnival mirror' type distortions. Avoid using Silent photography with moving subjects, and avoid using image stabilization with Silent photography."



Hogan should have been clearer because it might be misleading. On the one hand he's saying that some third-party lens stabilization systems are problematic when using a Z6 or Z7 and silent photography. Then he says never to use any lens image stabilization system with Nikon's silent photography. It's not clear in my mind that he is saying that Nikon VR and Z6 or Z7 silent photography are incompatible. The only thing that's clear in my mind is that he is cautioning everyone to play it safe and to avoid using VR with silent photography because some lenses might be incompatible.

Even so, I'm still baffled why you are even thinking about using a Z6 or Z7. You hated the viewfinder in the Z50, which is the same as the viewfinder in the Z6 and Z7.

silent shutter, good iso and great IQ is why

 

[Mike Buckley]

silent shutter, good iso and great IQ is why

That being the case, I agree with the others that you should consider renting a Z6 and mounting your VR glass on it when using the silent shutter. That's because, for me, Hogan's comment isn't clear enough to be taken as the gospel truth.

 

[Randy]

Agreed with taking one out for a test drive. You can get a 7-day rental from LensRentals.com for the Z6 and FTZ for $190. When I was thinking about the move to Sony I used them and rented the A9ii.

I was successful in using the Z6 to cover football, soccer, and basketball so it can be done. But I never really used the silent shutter.

thanks, normally a silent shutter is of no interest to me but the D5 is a problem, it scares away little birds that are very close to me and would otherwise not flew away so silence is a game changer, enough to get used the VF.

 

[Randy]

That being the case, I agree with the others that you should consider renting a Z6 and mounting your VR glass on it when using the silent shutter. That's because, for me, Hogan's comment isn't clear enough to be taken as the gospel truth.

that's my plan

 

[Randy]

Randy,

With respect, you are, perhaps, making your decisions on other people's interpretations of scenarios that are unlikely if ever going to happen. You are surely in a position to rent or otherwise acquire a Z6 to make up your own mind?

DG

thanks

 

[Pa]

You can get a 7-day rental from LensRentals.com for the Z6 and FTZ for $190.

You would probably lose less than that by buying and reselling, especially if you buy used. There is the hassle and a bit of risk, of course.