Z6 with wavy / warped images

Joined
Jul 24, 2021
Messages
2
I'm not a tech guru, but based on everything I've read, this issue is common to all mirrorless cameras because the fully electronic shutter, which is used in silent shutter mode, is a rolling shutter. The issue and ideal solutions are thoroughly discussed in Thom Hogan's Guide to the Z6, so you might want to consider buying it for that information as well as lots of other helpful information about using your camera. In a nutshell, Hogan recommends using the silent shutter only when doing so is absolutely necessary.
Thanks Mike. I'll get Thoms book.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
3,038
Location
Winter Haven, florida
I knew the read speed, and was thus surprised I have not seen an issue with it yet.
When I shoot prop planes I shoot 1/60 or slower, so the read speed has not been an issue.
I never thought about things like bike spokes. I do occasionally shoot bike races so thanks for reminding me to check on truly fast moving object.
Anything in nature- including bird wings- have not yet been noticeable, but this does remind me to stay alert.
Gary
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,066
Location
MN, USA
I knew the read speed, and was thus surprised I have not seen an issue with it yet.
When I shoot prop planes I shoot 1/60 or slower, so the read speed has not been an issue.
I never thought about things like bike spokes. I do occasionally shoot bike races so thanks for reminding me to check on truly fast moving object.
Anything in nature- including bird wings- have not yet been noticeable, but this does remind me to stay alert.
Gary
One thing to recognize is that it is not just 'fast moving objects', but objects that move over a significant portion of the screen in a short amount time. The converse of that is that 'fast moving objects' that take a small portion of the screen are less of an issue because the read time over a small portion of the screen can pretty insignificant - as a general approximation -1/20 sec over 4000 lines on the Z6 is 0.0000125 seconds /line - so even a 1/4 of the screen is read in 0.02 seconds (if my math is right).
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
29,607
Location
Moscow, Idaho
One thing to recognize is that it is not just 'fast moving objects', but objects that move over a significant portion of the screen in a short amount time. The converse of that is that 'fast moving objects' that take a small portion of the screen are less of an issue because the read time over a small portion of the screen can pretty insignificant - as a general approximation -1/20 sec over 4000 lines on the Z6 is 0.0000125 seconds /line - so even a 1/4 of the screen is read in 0.02 seconds (if my math is right).
Also, wouldn't direction of movement have an effect?
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,066
Location
MN, USA
Also, wouldn't direction of movement have an effect?
Well let's see. For an object moving horizontally across the field, the edge is going to look staircases as it has moved incrementally a bit while the system reads each line. Theoretically, if you had a black thread moving vertically at the same rate as the scan, you could end up with an all black frame as the thread was recorded in every scan line.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,066
Location
MN, USA
I'm no techy so, given that the D780 has the Z6's live view system, does anyone know if it would be affected by this issue when in its version of "silent mode"?
I don't know the D780, but it probably does.

Note that the Nikon manual for the D780 notes for the Silent Shutter to "Use for landscapes, still lifes, and other static subjects."
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
3,982
Location
Westmorland UK
I don't know the D780, but it probably does.

Note that the Nikon manual for the D780 notes for the Silent Shutter to "Use for landscapes, still lifes, and other static subjects."

Thanks for that. I don't know the 780 either but I've been thinking of buying one (five days left on an offer over here). For anyone else wondering, and just in case it helps this thread discussion, here is what the D780 manual says:

To enable the electronic shutter during live view photography, muting the shutter and eliminating the vibrations it produces, select [On] for [Silent live view photography] in the photo shooting menu. Use for landscapes, still lifes, and other static subjects.

Silent Live View Photography
  • Selecting [On] for [Silent live view photography] does not completely silence the camera. Camera sounds may still be audible, for example during autofocus or aperture adjustment, in the latter case most noticeably at apertures smaller (i.e., at f-numbers higher) than f/5.6.
  • During silent live view, you may notice the following in the display. These phenomena will also be visible in the final pictures.
    • Flicker or banding in scenes lit by such sources as fluorescent, mercury vapor, or sodium lamps
    • Distortion associated with motion (individual subjects such as trains or cars moving at high speed through the frame may be distorted, or the entire frame may appear distorted when the camera is panned horizontally)
    • Jagged edges, color fringing, moiré, and bright spots in the display
    • Bright regions or bands in scenes lit by flashing signs and other intermittent light sources or when the subject is briefly illuminated by a strobe or other bright, momentary light source
  • Selecting [On] for [Silent live view photography] mutes the shutter, but this does not absolve photographers of the need to respect their subjects’ privacy and image rights.

 
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
696
Location
Pacific Wonderland
EVERY current EFCS [Electronic First Curtain Shutter] system without a global-shutter sensor behind it will exhibit motion waves or tears to some degree.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
44
Location
Australia
The data I've found says the Sony A1 read speed is about 1/240 sec. I believe the Z6 is around 1/20 second. For several years I used an Olympus EM1-II which had a read speed around 1/60 second and only rarely saw a problem so clearly the Sony is much better. I have to think you'd still see the effect on something like spinning propellor blades or bike wheels that must be very usable.
same here: I have been using the Olympus E-M1 in silent mode (E-shutter) with excellent results on static subject and only some ovalizing of round objects (wheels for example) while they were in motion.
I guess I will have to NOT use silent mode on the new Nikon Z 🧐
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
33
EVERY current EFCS [Electronic First Curtain Shutter] system without a global-shutter sensor behind it will exhibit motion waves or tears to some degree.
Is that so. EFCS implies that a mechanical shutter is used to end the exposure and then the camera can read the data at leisure, no motion related warping.

Did you mean electronical shutter?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
236
Location
NC, USA
Real Name
Aaron
I bought an AF-P 70-300mm E (FX) for a bit more reach than my Tamron 70-200. After trying to invoke the wavy image effect with the silent shutter, I concluded that it is absent, or at least far more difficult to create than with the Tamron, leading me to further suspect the Tamron's VR is the culprit (or the combination of VR and IBIS when using silent shutter).

Note this only applies to the wavy image issue being seen with the Tamron 70-200 G2, not distortion of moving objects or artificial light banding; all electronic shutters exhibit those effects to some degree, no matter what lens is used.
 

Latest threads

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Nikon Cafe is a fan site and not associated with Nikon Corporation.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Forum GIFs powered by GIPHY: https://giphy.com/
Copyright © Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom