HIgh ISO D800 vs D7000 question

pforsell · Sep 7, 2012

kirbinster said:
Why would you buy a D800 to shoot DX? I never get why people set these cameras at small jpeg or lower quality jpeg either. If you buy something of this quality why not capture at full quality ...

While I don't have a D800, I do know that using JPEG as the output format still captures the full quality. You don't print raw files nor do you show raw files on the web. You will have to demosaic the raw, apply white balance, tone curve, gamma correction and then convert the image file to either TIFF or JPEG for printing or display.

I do it in camera, because I'm lazy. The in-camera JPEG engine is not that bad, actually it's output is the same you get out of Capture NX2. And yes, I sometimes use DX format with D3x or even 2x crop with D2x to use higher frame rates. And I save time because I don't have to sit at the computer processing boatloads of images.

Lance B · Sep 7, 2012

kirbinster said:
If that is the case then you should buy a D7000 not a D800. Again why buy a sports car to drive the kids to the school bus?

Because, when you want to have a sports car it's there ready for use. When you want to use the D800's high Mp resolution benefit and FF, you have the option. Also, the D800 is an overall much better camera than the D7000, faster more accurate AF, better build quality, larger VF, more features.

Lance B · Sep 7, 2012

pforsell said:
While I don't have a D800, I do know that using JPEG as the output format still captures the full quality. You don't print raw files nor do you show raw files on the web. You will have to demosaic the raw, apply white balance, tone curve, gamma correction and then convert the image file to either TIFF or JPEG for printing or display.

Haven't done a demosaic or Gamma correction yet on my 5000 RAW images from my D800.

I do it in camera, because I'm lazy. The in-camera JPEG engine is not that bad, actually it's output is the same you get out of Capture NX2. And yes, I sometimes use DX format with D3x or even 2x crop with D2x to use higher frame rates. And I save time because I don't have to sit at the computer processing boatloads of images.

But you can still do in camera jpeg conversion for the D800 but have the option of getting all that extra benefit of the D800 RAW images if required.

Sootchucker · Sep 7, 2012

Thanks for all the responses guys (I think :biggrin

. As to the reasons why I would buy a D800 and "cripple" it using it in DX mode well that' quite simple.

As stated I use the D800 as my main cam and all of my imagery is normally done at the full 36mp,and it's stunning. However when out and I see some wildlife etc, I used to switch to my D300 for it's DX "reach". I sold the D300 and got the D7000 for it's better high ISO, and whilst a fantastic camera, a D300 it is not. I got so used to the control layout, size weight etc. that swapping between the D800 and D7000 still (after nearly a year of owning the D7000), feels counter intuitive to me.

The ideal scenario would be for Nikon to launch a 16 or 24mp D400. All the goodness of the D7000 sensor but in a pro body. However sadly, it's looking very unlikely that this is going to happen and that Nikon may have abandoned the Pro DX scene altogether. That being the case, what I was wondering is whether the D800's DX image is as good as it gets currently, and should I therefore use the D800 for all FX and DX shots, or if the D7000 is still top of the tree for DX quality, continue to use the pair of them.

pforsell · Sep 7, 2012

Lance B said:
Haven't done a demosaic or Gamma correction yet on my 5000 RAW images from my D800.

Oh, so you just store the raw files and don't even look at them? That's cool with me. A bit nihilistic to my taste, but to all his own.

Or did you mean that someone else does the raw developing and you only shoot?

Lance B · Sep 7, 2012

pforsell said:
Oh, so you just store the raw files and don't even look at them? That's cool with me. A bit nihilistic to my taste, but to all his own.

Or did you mean that someone else does the raw developing and you only shoot?

Never said that I don't post process my RAW files. What I said was that I haven't done a demosaic nor gamma correction all this is automatic and requires no input from me and therefore takes no time.

It's quite a simple process of converting in a RAW converter to 16bit TIFF. I only alter WB if it is required, which is nearly impossible to do with a jpeg. I add a bit of saturation, maybe alter exposure if required, and do an automatic lens CA correction if required. I then save. In Photoshop I resize for web and then sharpen and then save as jpeg.

However, if I shoot jpeg, then I have very few of these options without causing issues in processing.

Big Daddy · Sep 7, 2012

My own take is that on the pixel level, the D800E has somewhat less noise than the D7000 (still own both, for now). It's more noticeable at ISO 3200. However, the color and dynamic range of the image at equivalent ISO is noticeably better. And with the D800E there's a slight boost in pixel-level sharpness, so I have to apply little sharpening in post -- which also helps a lot with noise.

Then take advantage of the huge amount of pixels, and noise is no contest. It's over a stop better IMHO. I doubt if many will shoot the D800E in DX mode the majority of time, and those FF shots at high ISO are great.

And the D800E is much better at lower ISO too -- nicer colors, better DR, and of course incredible detail.

studio460 · Sep 8, 2012

This thread has piqued my interest. I have both a D7000 and a D800E. I'm anxious myself to see the differences in a real-world, chroma-saturated (gelled) test scene: D7000's DX frame, compared with the D800E's frame in crop-mode. Maybe after my GF goes to sleep, I'll shoot some tests later tonight.

Big Daddy · Sep 8, 2012

My impressions are based on my typical high ISO shooting -- indoors with bad lighting (especially with different temperature lights or ones that cycle, sigh). Then some flash on top, and there's quite a bit of range of highlight to shadow.

But I honestly don't worry about the DX mode, which provides no more pixel-density reach than FX mode. I can deal with the bigger files.

I'm surprised there are more folks here than I thought who have upgraded from a D7000 to a D800/E. Perhaps I should try a separate thread so we can share general impressions besides high ISO. The D7000 is an excellent camera. But the D800/E is even better, and significantly so IMHO (and it should be, given the price!).

Randy · Sep 14, 2012

khollister said:
First, when I talk about DX, I am talking about the final cropped size. Unlike Randy and a few others, I do not set the camera to crop mode since I don't have an issue wrangling 200-300 45MB files. You seem to be confusing DX with lower quality. The issue isn't I only want/need 16MP, it is I want the smaller FOV to gain effective focal length. That just happens to come with fewer MP of course.
Secondly, the D800 is a better DX camera than the D7000 except for frame rate - Will covered that. Expensive, yes, but better.

Third, instead of dealing with FX and DX bodies (DX for birds/wildlife, FX for everything else), I can shoot with one pair of D800's and just crop down the bird shots if necessary in post. It also means that in some situations, I only need to carry one camera. In a number of locations my practice was to carry 2 DX bodies - one at 500mm on a tripod (300 + 1.7TC) and a second with 70-200 on my shoulder. Now I can often just take the tripod rig with the 300 + TC and get the same framing/FOV as the DX + 200mm by using the full FX image. That doesn't work all the time, but it comes in handy (digital zoom, so to speak, because I have MP to sacrifice if necessary).

you do or you don't (use the diferent Image Area modes

)

I use the 1.2 and 1.5 when I know I would be cropping to that anyway (essentially extending my reach)......sounds like you use them for the same reason:smile: or maybe not

khollister · Sep 14, 2012

Randy said:
you do or you don't (use the diferent Image Area modes)

I use the 1.2 and 1.5 when I know I would be cropping to that anyway (essentially extending my reach)......sounds like you use them for the same reason:smile:

I shoot everything full frame and crop down in post, if that wasn't clear.

Randy · Sep 14, 2012

khollister said:
I shoot everything full frame and crop down in post, if that wasn't clear.

thx, it def wasn't clear

i see no reason to take a big nef home with a bird in the middle when I know I am going to crop away 1/2 of it

but that's just me

and I'm not sure which method produces better IQ or if one is better than the other

studio460 · Sep 14, 2012

studio460 said:
Maybe after my GF goes to sleep, I'll shoot some tests later tonight.

Well, unfortunately, that didn't happen. Hopefully, I'll do some low-light scene tests (with colored lighting) this weekend. I am anxious to see my own direct comparisons between my D7000, D800E, and D3s.

khollister · Sep 14, 2012

Randy said:
thx, it def wasn't clear

i see no reason to take a big nef home with a bird in the middle when I know I am going to crop away 1/2 of it

but that's just me

and I'm not sure which method produces better IQ or if one is better than the other

I don't think IQ has anything to do with it - I can be a looser with my framing and put the crop where I want it later.

studio460 · Sep 15, 2012

Nikon D7000 @ ISO 6400: